Deadlift 5/3/1 FSL / Bench 5/3/1 FSL, Chins/Dips S/s â?? strict BB curls, Neck Work
Squat 5/3/1 FSL / OHP 5/3/1 FSL, Hang cleans into Front Squat- Back extensions s/s Ab rollout, Neck work. Should I add a horizontal pull? -----
Reasons for training two days, 1) School/Work/Life 2) want to incorporate more focus on mobility and conditioning 3) Jim Wendler supports 2x a week training so it must make you awesome.
comments are appreciated .
Couple things I would do differently:
Hang cleans before you do any of the big four. I would also do it both days without the front squat and with little volume (3’s prog for ex). Do you have any spesific reason to do it with FS?
It’s hard to do both lifts as main movements (5/3/1 + fsl) in the same day if you lift proper weights. It is still doable, but hard. 5’s pro would make things mentally little easier.
IMO you don’t need other upper body pull than chins now. Chins, abs and low back work is plenty assistance in this template. You can do rows later.
[quote]Rattus wrote:
Couple things I would do differently:
Hang cleans before you do any of the big four. I would also do it both days without the front squat and with little volume (3’s prog for ex). Do you have any spesific reason to do it with FS?
It’s hard to do both lifts as main movements (5/3/1 + fsl) in the same day if you lift proper weights. It is still doable, but hard. 5’s pro would make things mentally little easier.
IMO you don’t need other upper body pull than chins now. Chins, abs and low back work is plenty assistance in this template. You can do rows later.[/quote]
I’ll second pretty much all of this. The exception being doing the full clean. It seems to have great carryover to the lower body lifts, and for me at least loosens everything up a bit better vs. the power clean.
I agree that full clean is superior to power clean for recruiting total body power.
Question is does the OP want to emphasis clean or 5/3/1-movements. I wouldn’t personally do full cleans with this template, but that’s maybe not the case for others.
[quote]Rattus wrote:
Couple things I would do differently:
Hang cleans before you do any of the big four. I would also do it both days without the front squat and with little volume (3’s prog for ex). Do you have any spesific reason to do it with FS?
It’s hard to do both lifts as main movements (5/3/1 + fsl) in the same day if you lift proper weights. It is still doable, but hard. 5’s pro would make things mentally little easier.
IMO you don’t need other upper body pull than chins now. Chins, abs and low back work is plenty assistance in this template. You can do rows later.[/quote]
Really ? I saw Wendler give FSL on two lifts as a template, And wouldn’t hang cleans before 2 main lifts zap energy , I do agree explosive movements before main lifts do wake up the CNS , I plan on doing some light low volume jumps/throws
[quote]Richieavella721 wrote:
Really ? I saw Wendler give FSL on two lifts as a template, And wouldn’t hang cleans before 2 main lifts zap energy , I do agree explosive movements before main lifts do wake up the CNS , I plan on doing some light low volume jumps/throws
[/quote]
I dont’t think the above poster was referring to the fsl part, but the 5/3/1 part. 5’s pro w/ fsl.
High volume probably would. But low volume as the above poster suggested work fine for lots of folks. Jumps & throws are a great alternative.
[quote]Rattus wrote:
I agree that full clean is superior to power clean for recruiting total body power.
Question is does the OP want to emphasis clean or 5/3/1-movements. I wouldn’t personally do full cleans with this template, but that’s maybe not the case for others. [/quote]
Fair enough. As long as whatever your doing prior has a positive impact on the main lifts then okay, but if they detract then yeah 86 'em.
[quote]Richieavella721 wrote:
[quote]Rattus wrote:
Couple things I would do differently:
Hang cleans before you do any of the big four. I would also do it both days without the front squat and with little volume (3’s prog for ex). Do you have any spesific reason to do it with FS?
It’s hard to do both lifts as main movements (5/3/1 + fsl) in the same day if you lift proper weights. It is still doable, but hard. 5’s pro would make things mentally little easier.
IMO you don’t need other upper body pull than chins now. Chins, abs and low back work is plenty assistance in this template. You can do rows later.[/quote]
Really ? I saw Wendler give FSL on two lifts as a template, And wouldn’t hang cleans before 2 main lifts zap energy , I do agree explosive movements before main lifts do wake up the CNS , I plan on doing some light low volume jumps/throws
[/quote]
I did not say it is impossible or stupid, but it is hard. My first 5/3/1 template had two main lifts as 5/3/1 in one workout. It was doable, but my lifts were much weaker then. You probably won’t be able to push bench PR after two AMRAP set of squats/deads. Therefore I see 5’s pro better option here. So the first movement wouldn’t dry you.
Anyway, I’m not the inventor of this program, and Mr. Wendler probably has more valid opinion here.
Doing some cleans before squatting won’t kill your energy. Multiple sets of heavy full cleans will. You must think why you do cleans for the first place. They’re awesome movement, but there is no sense of doing them when already fatiqued from two strength movements. Do them right or don’t do them. Jumps or throws are okay substitute if you fear of tiring out.
love the input, My routine isn’t set in stone what do you guys think is the best setup , Starting up this Monday after a week of intense stretching for mobility .
Wendler has a good article about the subject here, named “training for busy men” etc. He also haves great 2-day templates in his books.
But how I would do it:
A) Hang clean 3x3 deload, Squat, Bench, abs if feeling good
B) Hang clean 3’s pro, Deadlift, Press, chins if feeling good
Other main movement is done 3/5/1 and other 5x5 FSL. In week 1 you would do heavy press and heavy squat. In week 2 you would do heavy deadlift and heavy bench.
This can be easily done 2-4 times a week, depending how you have time and energy.
Or if you want to do both movements heavy in one session:
A) Hang clean 3x3 light, Squat 5’s PRO, Bench 5’s PRO, abs
B) Hang clean 3x3 light, DL 5’s PRO, Press 5’s PRO, chins
Hang cleans should be done quite lightly in both templates. Use them as a speed-strength work. Heavy cleaning would need a day of its own.
These are just my suggestions based on my experiences with the program. Ready templates made by mr. W has much more “testing” behind them.
[quote]Rattus wrote:
Wendler has a good article about the subject here, named “training for busy men” etc. He also haves great 2-day templates in his books.
But how I would do it:
A) Hang clean 3x3 deload, Squat, Bench, abs if feeling good
B) Hang clean 3’s pro, Deadlift, Press, chins if feeling good
Other main movement is done 3/5/1 and other 5x5 FSL. In week 1 you would do heavy press and heavy squat. In week 2 you would do heavy deadlift and heavy bench.
This can be easily done 2-4 times a week, depending how you have time and energy.
Or if you want to do both movements heavy in one session:
A) Hang clean 3x3 light, Squat 5’s PRO, Bench 5’s PRO, abs
B) Hang clean 3x3 light, DL 5’s PRO, Press 5’s PRO, chins
Hang cleans should be done quite lightly in both templates. Use them as a speed-strength work. Heavy cleaning would need a day of its own.
These are just my suggestions based on my experiences with the program. Ready templates made by mr. W has much more “testing” behind them. [/quote]
Was thinking of just doing the 2x2x2 in the beyond 531 book for now .
Dude, I assume you’re going x2/week because there are time constraints.
Now you have yourself doing 12-16 sets of main work plus cleans, plus 2-3 assistance exercises - assuming 50-100 reps each
Contrast with this: 5/3/1 Rest Pause: A 6-Week Challenge 8 sets plus Ab work
Without understanding how to prioritize based upon your needs and goals, you can’t hope to put together a program which takes time constraints into account. This looks like a 4 day program wedged into 2 days.
I recommend following the above for 6 weeks and seeing how you pull up.
[quote]tsantos wrote:
Dude, I assume you’re going x2/week because there are time constraints.
Now you have yourself doing 12-16 sets of main work plus cleans, plus 2-3 assistance exercises - assuming 50-100 reps each
Contrast with this: 5/3/1 Rest Pause: A 6-Week Challenge 8 sets plus Ab work
Without understanding how to prioritize based upon your needs and goals, you can’t hope to put together a program which takes time constraints into account. This looks like a 4 day program wedged into 2 days.
I recommend following the above for 6 weeks and seeing how you pull up.[/quote]
Yeah I totally agree thanks for your input, I was debating between 5/3/1/ DC training or the outline Jim has in beyond 5/3/1 , I feel like you can run his template from the book for a longer period of time but maybe I’ll give the 6 week challenge a shot, BTW do youknow if you use deload week on this challenge?
[quote]Richieavella721 wrote:
Yeah I totally agree thanks for your input, I was debating between 5/3/1/ DC training or the outline Jim has in beyond 5/3/1 , I feel like you can run his template from the book for a longer period of time but maybe I’ll give the 6 week challenge a shot, BTW do youknow if you use deload week on this challenge? [/quote]
You deload after 6 weeks