can someone explain how curcumin works? does it inhibit the cyclooxygenase enzyme like aspirin or other painkillers? if so, i assume this could have a negative effect if taken too often as it would inhibit the amount of docohosahexaenoic acid that is converted to anti-inflammatory eicosanoids, right? or does it work in some other way? would this be a supplement thats best taken never, daily, or only in certain circumstances? thanks for the help
Well, expression of cox-2 is controlled by the NFkB transcription factor, and curcumin is an effective downregulator of this particular pathway. Keep in mind that cox-2 should not be expressed in high levels in normal tissues anyway, so my stance would be that curcumin downregulates an otherwise upregulated system.
I’ll bump this as I am also interested in it;
But from what I know, they both can act as COX inhibitors, but there are some differences in their methods of action. I do not know exactly what these differences are, but the effects attributed to aspirin and curcumin are very different in most regards.
Also, I remember a post (in passing) that mentioned that aspirin acts upon muscle tissue, which can impair the muscular repair process, while curcumin does not; I haven’t checked up on this claim though.
Is curcumin really an inhibitor of COX-2? To my limited knowledge, the reduction in COX-2 activity seen by treatment with curcumin is mediated through depresseion of NfKB (and the STAT’s), not by actual inhibition of the actual COX enzyme.
I don’t know of any evidence that it inhibits COX-2: I’ve never seen that claimed in the literature.
Rather it can reduce the amount of COX-2 enzyme that is produced, which is believed to be via the mechanism that you say.
Sometimes this is called inhibition of transcription of COX-2 and perhaps some mistakenly read that as meaning inhibition of the enzyme. I don’t know.
Okay, let me have a swing at this: I have no idea the safety of curcumin vs usage of coxibs (typical COX 2 selective inhibitors) if that’s what you’re asking, although based on the clarification that Bill made, that curcumin is a reducer, and not inhibitor of COX 2 production, I would assume it’s a safer course of action, and anecdotally there is a long history of usage of curcumin, with little if any ill effects I know of, though maybe ppl didn’t take it in the quantity of 10 caps per day etc. In moderate (label) doses, curcumin 500 appears to me to be a safe (and healthy) product.
As far as when to take it, the only recommendation I could give would be to experiment with periods of taking it vs not taking it and track your results. I’m curious if there is any benefit on timing of this supplement though.
Further, while I’m not answering the question, I thought this study interesting:
“…the current data suggest that the COX-1 enzyme is likely the main isoform responsible for the COX-mediated increase in muscle protein synthesis following resistance exercise in humans.”
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/298/2/E354
…so, according to this study, (selective) COX2 inhibitors (coxibs and I guess curcumin loosly falls into this category as well for intents and purposes of this discussion, with respect to the clarification Bill and Mikael LS made above) appear not to have the same detrimental effect on muscle protein synthesis as would non-selective COX inhibitors like (non selective) NSAIDs (like aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, etc which inhibit both COX 1 & COX 2 enxymes).
Correct me if I’m wrong in interpreting this data.
Bulletproof tiger got it right. Curcumin selectively inhibits inflammatory prostaglandins whereas NSAIDs are not selective…
That link explains it pretty well, scroll down a little for just anti-inflammatory mechanisms.
[quote]EGYnutrition wrote:
Bulletproof tiger got it right. Curcumin selectively inhibits inflammatory prostaglandins whereas NSAIDs are not selective…
That link explains it pretty well, scroll down a little for just anti-inflammatory mechanisms. [/quote]
Gotta love the LPI site!
Very good site.
Their explanation of Metabolism Bioavailibility of Curcumin is very intesresting.
Basically they suggest that oral supplementation of Curcumin under 3.6g/dose stays in the GI tract, and is not detected in the plasma and liver.
Giving the fact that I’m supplementing every day with two caps of Curcumin from Biotest, that sounds disturbing to me.
Regards,
Guillaume.
The study was of the bioavailability of curcumin with no bioavailability enhancer, which is poor. This is not the situation with the Biotest product, which uses piperine for this purpose.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
The study was of the bioavailability of curcumin with no bioavailable enhancer, which is poor. This is not the situation with the Biotest product, which uses piperine for this purpose.[/quote]
Did you get that people. You must take your curcumin or tumeric with pepper or it doesn’t work. I’ve been told this by 2 other coaches aswell.
[quote]stockzy wrote:
You must take your curcumin or tumeric with pepper or it doesn’t work. I’ve been told this by 2 other coaches aswell.[/quote] Are you referring to powder turmeric? We should add pepper when we eat it?
[quote]tolismann wrote:
[quote]stockzy wrote:
You must take your curcumin or tumeric with pepper or it doesn’t work. I’ve been told this by 2 other coaches aswell.[/quote] Are you referring to powder turmeric? We should add pepper when we eat it?
[/quote]
No - pepper does not have the same effects as piperine/bioperine.
Fat does help digestion of curcumin which is a fat soluble antioxidant. Curry anyone?
Actually, piperine is indeed present in black pepper, and is the cause or at least principal cause (I am not sure which) of its spiciness.
I don’t know the concentration of piperine in black pepper, but it wouldn’t take an unreasonable amount of black pepper to provide an effective amount of piperine, judging from the fact that effective amounts of piperine aren’t unreasonably spicy.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Actually, piperine is indeed present in black pepper, and is the cause or at least principal cause (I am not sure which) of its spiciness.
I don’t know the concentration of piperine in black pepper, but it wouldn’t take an unreasonable amount of black pepper to provide an effective amount of piperine, judging from the fact that effective amounts of piperine aren’t unreasonably spicy.[/quote]
I find this hard to believe for practical purposes and based on what I’ve read, but I could be wrong. Piperine from what I’ve read is about 5% of pepper (about 5g per 100 g) www.publish.csiro.au/?act=view_file&file_id=SA0402189.pdf If piperine in pepper is as bioavailable as that in pure form, then since piperine is supposed to jack up the absorption of medications, then wouldn’t we see some lawsuit or warning on pepper for ppl on meds? This would mean that a person taking a medication senstive to piperine couldn’t consume pepper in any appreciable amount, that is if mg for mg the piperine in pepper is as bioavilable as the free form piperine in curcumin 500. You don’t have to consume much pepper to get 3.75 or more milligrams of piperine. All you’d have to consume is 100 mg of pepper (which seems to me to be a normal amount of pepper) to get the same dose of piperine in curcumin 500. Wouldn’t pepper come with a warning on pepper if this were the case? Maybe not.
What I’ve read (I think I read this but I can’t remember where this info may be from) has indicated that the time it takes for the bioperine in pepper to digest, makes a timing issue such that it’s not in the digestive tract at the same time same place as the curcumin (or whatever) and said timing is critical for curcumin to work it’s magic.
Perhaps heating the pepper makes a difference in bioavailability of the piperine, in the case of curcumin in curry (since it’s fat soluble) and since curcumin is not easily destroyed by heat.
If all else fails, curry could be made using curcumin 500 and coconut milk, which would avoid all possible issues. There would be piperine, fat, curcumin, and you could even add a bit more pepper if you wanted.
edit: I realize bioavailability is the wrong word. Just availability or yield would be more appropriate, but you catch my drift.
Well, I am only going by simple observation of taste, which is at least related to concentration and amount. And the relation would be to the amount of piperine immediately available, assuming that it’s true that it is the principal component responsible for the spicy taste.
I don’t have specific proof that use of black pepper is sufficient for use with curcumin: I’ve never looked.
Using your figure of 5% though, a quantity of say 1 g of black pepper would have 50 mg: far more than enough.
As for why no warning label on black pepper: it’s a traditional food.
If warning labels were appropriate, they ought to be on the medications. I don’t know if there are any medications warning not to take with black pepper. I hadn’t heard of it. But I never looked into it either.
Yeah but Bill, as far as traditional items in the american diet go, medicine is just as much a staple as is pepper. I say put the warning on pepper. Nah, j/k. good point. I’m still looking into this.