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How Do You Know Your Natural Genetic Limit? Considering First Cycle

Hey y’all,

I’ve been an avid reader for quite some time and was curious about a few things from the vets. Some basic background info on me:
24y/o (bday in March to turn 25)
Around 8-9% BF
Been training since I was 15 so around 9 years now and bodybuilding for 3 years.

I was curious to see how some of you knew you found your max genetic limit or whatever it is called because I can hit 180 lean and dry but only pass that when I tried SARMs and the mk677 made me hold water weight. I plan on eventually doing a real test cycle but I want to make sure I’m actually at my peak.


First of all that is very respectable to hit your genetic limit before running on gear. I really don’t know how to tell but it probably is when you can no longer get stronger no matter what you change. If you are going for hypertrophy, I don’t know how to tell that someone has hit their genetic limit. I think you might be able to get bigger if you gain a little weight in body fat. This is only my opinion so do your own research.

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Thank you for your reply,

So the plan is to bodybuild and everntually go pro in retrospect. I am one of those shitty cases of very high metabolism aka hard gainer and when I started out my diet and trianing was shit for the first like 6 years almost, going from like 100lba soaking wet to at most 130lbs soaking wet. I got my diet in check (started eating big) and training down to a strict T and went from the 130 to around 150-160 in my first year and a half of “bodybuilding” but got stuck yet again and was stupid with supps but never a real test cycle then realized I needed to eat more and train harder so that brings us the the remaining time to present where I have been blasting my workouts and eating more but strength has been stuck where it’s at which isn’t bad and my weight fluctuates depending on how much water I drank or if I just took a shit. I have tried the same process I did before my eating more to increase the calorie intake but I simple can’t it is physically impossible without causing problems and pain so I would like to say I’m pretty maxed out naturally I guess?

Please describe a day of eating. Are you tracking calories?


I do not track macros anymore, I used to for some time but not anymore. A typical day consists of a meal about every 2 to 3 hours give or take, of a large portion of either chicken (I’ve been using breast filets and each meal is around 3 to 4) or a healthy sized steak partnered with a decent amount of either rice or potatoes (typically potatoes since they’re heartier) with protein shakes in the AM when I wake up and one randomly during the day and one post workout in the pm. Not sure what the calories are at with just that but they’ve gotta be pretty good plus some snacks like PB or a pack of nuts etc. A bad day would consist of about 2 of those types of meals and something like an entire large pizza or like 8 plus tacos from taco Bell (not good) so I do eat and eat quite a bit, never had to really watch my calories or my fat/carbs because I have always been very lean even now

What can you hit on the some of the big compound movements?

You have around 160 lbs of lean mass. At 6’ you should be able to get to at least 180-185 lbs of lean mass naturally. So at your current BF% you should be able to get up to around 200 lbs (if your genetics are decent).


I haven’t gone for maxes so I’m not sure but I can do at least 3 reps of 315 squats and at least 3 reps of 455 deads and rep out 6 to 8 with 225 on bench. My BF stats are estimated it may be lower and me genetics are pretty decent I get called a mini calum von moger because my build is similar to his

If this is true, there’s no way you’ve reached your limit before age 25.

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My first comment is that I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume you’re eating enough to grow considering that you don’t seem to be putting on weight

If you were in a calorie surplus you will see the scale start to move sooner or later. Eat more.

Secondly your lifts are not where I would even consider someone of your size to be when I think of ‘maxed out’ potential. I’m 5’6" around 190lbs and have never been considered ‘genetically gifted’ by anyone and put up better numbers than that (not try to have a dick measuring contest here).
I hope that didn’t come off as mean because that’s not what I mean. I just don’t think you’re eating or training hard enough to think you’ve reached you’re limit yet.

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Also, if your goal is to turn Pro then yo need to get in the habit of dialing in your food intake.

“pretty decent” in my mind unless you take into account my insane metabolism then honestly it’s aesthetically good but shitty outside of that. And if you take into account the almost decade of training which most younger guys on here making posts about gear cycles or whatever don’t have nor the diet/supplement experience I have. And just the all around knowledge of my own body as in what training works best for me and what supplements work and don’t work except for the question I asked in my first post about not quite knowing if I’m at or close to my natural peak

Counting training performed at 15 is getting disingenuous there. I also started training at 14, and though I can claim I’ve trained for 19 years that way, those first 4 years were years spent surviving puberty.

The genetics thing is funny is this regard. Your genetics are good, until that would mean you have a lot of potential, in which case it turns out your genetics are bad.

My genetics are awful, but I still haven’t reached my limit. There’s really not a whole lot of trainees that will.

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I’m sorry but I don’t think you know what works for you and what doesn’t to be honest. You know you have an ‘insanely high’ metabolism but you still haven’t figured out how to put on weight. You say you have a decade of training experience and know what works for your body but you’re lifts say different.
You then go on to mention

so it’s becoming clear that what you want is for us to give you permission to hop on gear. You’re old enough to make your own decisions but this process would be much easier for all of us if you’re honest from the beginning.

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You are nowhere near your genetic limit.

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Genetics are a funny thing. There are guys at my gym who work harder than me, are shredded, but have shoulders like a trout. I have wider shoulders than I deserve, based on training when compared to others. Ditto my back. I have a genetic gift in that department. But if I eat a cucumber it immediately gets stored as 2lbs of fat right in my belly. I have never been able to develop decent shape in my chest. I can add size but that classic shape of the pecs that grace the cover of Abercrombie catalogs? Nope. None of that for me. You can’t fight genetics. We all have limitations. So you do your best to work within the confines of what hand you’re dealt. If your goal is to truly hit your absolute genetic limit before using gear then good luck to you. I have no idea how you’d accurately measure that. It’s basically Potter Stewart and pornography.

This whole thing smells trolly. I cant think of anything nice to say so I keep deleting. I am failing at my new years resolutions of not being an asshole.

Just go do a cycle if you are going to do it. This question can not be answered for you over the internet by strangers that don’t have the full picture.


I find that people severely under estimate their body fat most of the time. I would second that your lean mass is definitely a little low for your height to be considered genetic potential. As Iron said though, genetic potential is hard to define. Mass will come with age and training. I’m 10% heavier in my late 30s than I was in my mid twenties at about the same or better BF %. Just takes years of training, eating, and dialing in. I also cycled in my mid 20s, didn’t retain a lick of it, but 10 years later I had surpassed that mark naturally until needing TRT a few years ago.


First, thank you everyone for the replies both negative and positive.
Second, no this isn’t a troll nor is it me “asking for permission” to start a cycle because frankly I don’t care if I have " permission" it is indeed a personal decision
I understand it is hard to get the full picture on an internet forum and wasn’t expecting some golden full proof answer just some wisdom from others but honestly not many people have my issue, most people gain weight just by looking at food while I can eat enough to feed a small village and gain very little with not even a single pound of fat gain. I don’t have any recent pics to show my frame and build but I’m sure all of you know at least one guy in the gym who is that super lean guy that’s decent size and lifts much heavier than he looks like he could and stays defined pretty much year round well that’s me except I stay in a caloric surplus year round.

In response to the reply about my numbers, I know they aren’t crazy high for my height and weight but I don’t go for strength or crazy maxes I go for hypertrophy. I’m genetically a small lanky dude with a long slim frame in all honesty but with diet and training I’m nicely built for a “natural”
And the whole body fat % being wrong you are right MOST people misjudge their own but I’m not, I’m vascular literally everywhere including my upper back all while being pretty cut even with water weight.
Let’s see what else, I tossed the considering first cycle in there for context into putting my cycle plans in this thread after I got some input on my original question and then starting a cycle log thread when I started, not asking for a cycle or whatever I’ve done the research I’m just not ready for all that mentally yet

Iron, I would like to try to hit my limit or get as close as I can before I do get on gear because I know once I’m on I am going for the long run especially since I want to go pro, I just feel like if I’m not there yet I am damn near ya know?

At 6’ 175 lean is definitely not your genetic limit even with very average genetics. Im 5’10 and Im usually 190 floating around 10% bf and I could still put on more muscle if I wasnt so carb phobic.

Im pretty confident that, if it was my goal, I could get to 200lbs while still natural at the same bf,

At 6ft you should be looking at 200ish lean imo.

I also thought I’d reached my genetic limit at 24. 4 years later I realise that its just a case of this being a very slow process, and at a certain point you will stop seeing weekly or monthly changes as easily as you used to. But persevere.

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