T Nation

How do you drink your Surge?

Anyone know if good old Familia Muesli (www.localflavor.com/famswismuesr.html) is as healthy as it seems? I know it tastes way better than any of the copies I’ve tried. Since it’s primarily constituted of oats, I wonder if the oats are low GI oats (eg slow oatmeal) or high GI oats (eg instant oatmeal).

Anyone know any other cereals which are extraordinarily healthy. I just cant stand plain oatmeal – I try, but it takes about 30min for me to choke down 3 spoonfulls.

mdog…while I’m not 100 percent, I believe that that parting line represents about 1/4 serving. Remember that a serving is 2 ROUNDED scoops (for 150-200 lb. person anyway). So what I do is take half my serving before/during and the other half after. I put my before/during mixture into two separate shaker bottles, and each bottle gets a scoop about the size of that parting line, along with half a serving of creatine in each.

So after a workout (or when you’re breaking a fast–breakfast) it becomes more advantageous to bump insulin. Very interesting stuff, Terry. I’ll probably have to read that post a few more times and then search the site for some more info.



If you’re interested in more info on the subject, take a look at Rob Faigin’s, “Natural Hormonal Enhancement” at extique.com. He tied everything I’ve ever learned on T-Mag and everything I believe about diet into one nice, neat little package.

That’s funny… I’ve really been considering purchasing that book. I’ve read di Pasquale’s Metabolic diet, the T-dawgs and Joel Marion’s cheater’s diet, and they all seem to be pointing me towards what I’ve heard about NHE.

Damn, I wish I had enough money for all the training books, tapes and toys I want to buy.


I actually weighed my serving of surge yesterday. Two full scoops, level at the top, weighed in at 90 grams. So two scoops only slightly rounded gives you a full serving of 94 grams.

thanks guys!

If I remember right. In Faigin’s NHE diet he does not believe in carbs in pre or post workout meals for specifically that reason; to avoid that Insoline spike and fat storage. I believe that Faigin suggests avoiding the Surge-type shake and stick to a basic low carb protein source like LC Grow for pre/post workout shakes. Correct me if I am wrong.

I drink all after a workout unless I’m doing a low carb diet. Then I do 1/2 before and 1/2 after. That way I have the energy to workout.

colour me stupid but i love the taste of surge. i use “Grow”, powerdrive, and a pbj sandwich (for energy) an hour before i work out and then as a reward for a good strong hour of exercise i get to chug my surge. it’s silly, i’ll give you that, but on the otherhand it’s one of a zillion things i do to keep me motivated, especially if i’m going to trudge through the black snow of NYC to get to the gym in the mornings.

Faigan has some interesting ideas, but he’s way off when it comes to post-workout nutrition.

I am about to bite the bullet and try surge. A few questions though. Serving size can’t be one size fits all. Nor can serving size be the same for two 200lb’ers with varying composition levels, right? 2)Is there any benefit to the amount of water that is taken with it? 3)What is the most effective way to follow up a surge? 2-3 hours later a high quality low g.i. meal? I’ll keep searching and re-read protein roundtable, but any help or pointing me to some articles would be appreciated. Goal is slow, methodical fat loss with as much lean tissue retention as possible. Like everyones, right? I guess I am in the high teens in B.F.

“Natural Hormonal Enhancement” is a good book. I learned a lot. I agreed with some of the things he said and disagreed with others. I also disagree with his views on post-workout nutrition. He also does not believe in counting calories or keeping a food log, things that I believe have been key in my success.

However, the general population can really benefit from carb-management/manipulation/restriction. And Faigin was doing carb refeeds long before Joel Marion made them famous here on T-Mag.

This turned out to be a really good thread. I’m bookmarking it for the future.

Jay…1. You’re right about serving sizes, but I would imagine anyone who’s invested in Surge has a decent amount of lean mass on his/her frame and thus the serving recommendations on the bottle should be relatively accurate; 2. As far as water content, you’re probably best off–in terms of gastric emptying–by making the solution at least 10%, if not less (around 8%). This can be determined by the amount of powder you’re putting in. As previously stated, two scoops comes out to ~90g so you’d add 900ml (or just make it a liter) to achieve that 10% or less concentration; 3. Actually, I would recommend another protein and carbohydrate meal in the next 60-90 minutes. The carbohydrate choice could be a moderate to high GI carb, but I tend to opt for something lower GI and more fibrous (i.e. oats and fibrous veggies). The meal should come sooner than two-plus hours due to the fact that the ingredients are so quickly acting that you’re at risk for a crash in blood sugar levels and/or oxidizing your valuable whey hydrolysate for energy purposes.

Tampa T-Bone…I really like your explanation of the insulin issue. I also took a liking to your calling the action of insulin following high GI carb intake a “response” as opposed to the oft used “spike.” Spike just sounds too damn dirty for me:-)

Read the second response; I think it's pretty obvious which method is physiologically more advantageous.

Having said that, I don't stomach SURGE well, so I use a fruit flavored carb drink w/ BCAA's pre-workout and then SURGE post-workout on most training days (especially when squatting or deadlifting).


Dogchild, I know how you feel. Some people collect T-shirts; others collect teapots. I collect books. Actually, “collect” is probably not the best word. “Addiction” is more like it. (grin)

As thinking people, we draw from many sources. I’ve been greatly influenced by John Berardi. Joel Marion’s cheat meals have been one of the more significant turning points in my life. Additionally, Lyle MacDonald and Dan Duchaine have influenced my thoughts on ketogenic type diets. Rob Faigin’s NHE is just my latest find.

Tell me about it. I often have more in trade credit at my local bookstore than I have in cash or in my bank account. Frightening.

I only wish it was easier to get some of the books that I’m interested in! Curse sheep diets!


Hey Tampa, have you read The Warrior Diet by Ori Hofmekler.? Or what about Power to the People by Pavel Tsatsouline ? The Warrior Diet has been getting a lot of press lately especially since some big names have been recommending it, like John Davies, Pavel, Charles Poliquin and Staley. However, like you, I am a devout fan of Berardi and he told me to stay away from it, as did Chad Waterbury.

Alex, I’ve read about the Warrior Diet, but it just didn’t push my buttons, so I never tried it. It’s based on the concept of cycling underfeeding and overfeeding within a 24-hour period. The basic principle is that you’re eating only one meal a day. There’s a T-Mag version that attempts to protect muscle. But I just can’t get past that one-meal-a-day thing.

Tons of stuff here on T-Mag in the article archive, if you’re interested. Like you, I’ll stick with Berardi. (grin)