I consider myself a libertarian, but its hard to find a serious libertarian candidate to support at the national level. I try to be informed and get my news from a variety of sources (newspapers and cable news like CNN, MSNBC and Fox). My favorite information websites are techcentralstation.com and reason.com. I probably belong in Shugart’s “radical center”. I think Sean Hannity and Michael Moore both need a swift kick in the ass, and Bill Maher is a turd. I would like more politicians like former New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson and Texas Congressman Ron Paul. I would like to see a flat tax, term limits, line item vetoes, and accountability for our tax dollars. I think global warming and cooling are climate cycles that always have and will occur. I think Penn and Teller’s ‘Bullshit’ ought to be required viewing for all college students:)
[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
makkun-
German Green Party, huh? It sounds pretty similar to the American Green Party (from what little I know of it). I assume you live in Germany but are you familiar with the Green Party over here?
Thanks for the greeting everyone![/quote]
Hm, as far as I understand, the Anglo-American counterparts tend to be a bit more radical, just like the German Greens were 25 years ago. For a long time they were considered not fit for government, but they have been in government for 6 years now and have successfully pushed through quite a few social and environmentalist agendas - without bringing back socialism. And German’s foreign minister Joschka Fischer has been the most popular politician in Germany for years. Would that be thinkable in the US?
Makkun
[quote]oboffill wrote:
On what LBRTRN wrote:
Please note that this is not a Republican vs Democrat vs Whatever-the-fuck issue. I think Washington Democrats are gutless SOB’s.[/quote]
Ok…I’m glad you feel that way, but what does that have to do with what I wrote? I never said this was a “Republican vs. Democrat” issue. Sadly, we do live in a country with a two party system, so I am forced to chose between two people I would rather not see as president.
[quote]
However, it is painfully obvious that Bush is one of the least intelligent people in America, born with a silver spoon, and a drunk. He does not deserve to have children, much less run this great land.[/quote]
I am not going to spend a lot of time defending Bush’s intelligence (or lack there of) but I find it incredibly ironic that you, an obvious “liberal” (note: I said “liberal” not Democrat), would judge a man as unintelligent solely because of his poor oratory skills. Aren?t “liberals” always deriding the right for being judgmental? Never mind the fact that Bush graduated from Yale, Harvard, flew fighter jets, was elected governor of one of the largest states in the union, and was elected president…twice. And don?t even try to claim he accomplished all of that simply because of his influential daddy.
This is really all besides the point (I’ve actually helped derail my own thread). I started this thread to 1)introduce myself, 2) let everyone know where I’m coming from politically and 3) find out where everyone else is coming from politically. I suppose, in a round about sort of way, you have let me know where you are coming from politically. Thanks!
Some advice: there is more to life than politics, try not to be so bitter. Besides, you will be far more effective if you turn down the anger a bit.
[quote]makkun wrote:
Would that be thinkable in the US?
[/quote]
Actually, it wouldnt suprise me one bit!
Welcome LBRTRN!
I’m a fiscal conservative. On social issues, I vary.
So, Bush get’s a mixed review from me. He spends too much, but gave me a tax cut, etc, etc.
I can support the Repub’s AND Dem’s on certain issues. But mostly support the Repub’s. I cannot stand taxes as they are enacted now. A group once asked a bunch of Dem. Senators, “What should the highest tax rate be? 40%? 50%? 80%? What percentage?” NONE of the Senators would give any number. Why? Because as soon as any given percentage is in place, they’d look to increase it. So they don’t want to be on the record as supporting any particular rate.
I find current day internationalist’s always want to tear down and blame the USA, yet demand help from us for everything. Kinda like treating the USA as a Rich guy in an emerging socialist nation (let’s take all his money/resources, and level him to the rest of us, it’s unfair for him to be so wealthy.)
Oops! Veered off track. But at least you have an idea where I stand.
obofoll or whatever,
“However, it is painfully obvious that Bush is one of the least intelligent people in America, born with a silver spoon, and a drunk. He does not deserve to have children, much less run this great land.”
Dude, Have you seen his daughters? They are fucking smoking. I’d say they had some pretty good genetics passed down to them to be that hot. Oh the Brunette is so delicious!
Anyway, I am a conservative with regards to many things such a security, and economics. I however am liberal on social issues and personal freedoms. I like the govenator and hope he will be able to run for president some day.
RSU,
The more I read this thread and where people place themselves, and all their liberal leanings, the more I suspect you just might be conservative.
Oh, my brain aches, the “logic”…
Welcome LBTRN.
Boy, you sure know how to get the party started!
I would define myself as a right wing nutcase, pro-huge business,military, anti-huge govt. and taxes.
SHEEPLE? That sounds like an Al Franken play on words. He did that with spork a long time ago.I’ll bet obofill gets his news from Air America. Al franken is funny. He is also a whiney, frustrated sissy boy who is angry that his party LOST!
How about we start refering to democrats as DEMOBRATS.That should be right up there with Sheeeple and Spork.
I don’t know what the term is for people like me, asdie from the oft used “malcontent.”
I am against the government interfering in any “moral” issues, including same-sex marriage, pro-steroid/pro-hormone use, and the like. However, I do favor a certain regulation of PS/PH to minimize the likelyhood of children using them. For those of age, it should not be an issue.
I am for a flat-tax, a reduction in government size and spending, term limits for all political offices, the rebuilding of the wall between religion and state affairs, the reduction or elimination of tarrifs, and the immolation of the morbidly obese.
I am for proper sexual education administered by parents, the reclaimation of responsibility by individuals, more strict and effective laws with regards to civil law suits, and the implementation of public flogging for the ignorant-opinionated.
I am for the removal of Jerry Falwell from the public eye. Same goes for Fox News and every other biased “news” organization on the planet.
I am against the Iraq War, the draft, and ignorance and anger disguised as patriotism.
I am against self-loathing disguised as tolerance - hate none, including the self.
I am against all who oppose me. The suck.
I am a Protestant Christian.
I am horny twice a day - when I am awake, and when I sleep.
Obofill- Of course you don’t have a “little mind,” and are not “brain dead” nor “dim-witted.” In fact being in possession of sublime cognitive gifts you would never state that “Bush is against all views of the libertarian movement.” Really- all of them? Does that include lowering taxes, gun rights, Social Security privatization, and school choice and accountability?
Inquiring minds want to know- are you more of an “asshole” than an idiot, and have you checked your meds lately? Or more likely, has your mom been checking them before she puts on your helmet and walks you to the place where that short yellow bus comes to get you?
Way to welcome to new guy to the forum.
And if you want more, and I got plenty for a rude idiot like you. Bring it.
Even you diehard libs have got to admit obofill has some issues. I don’t see anything in the new guy’s post that warranted obofill nasty little diatribe.
BTW, and this is no suprise to the regulars, I’m pretty much a libertarian.
Obofill- have mommy adjust your meds or fiddle with the tuning on your tin hat, the one that drops all of that esoteric knowledge into your vast gray blob of brilliance.
schrauper,
That was lovely. I only wish I could have said it myself. Instead I had to go with a shot at Al Frankin. Looking forward to hearing more on this one!
Believe it or not, I have been interested in politics from around the 4th grade. Indeed, I used to read the entire paper from cover to cover starting at about that age. Originally, I was a liberal. Around my junior year in high school, I became a conservative. Then, about my sophomore year in college, I became a libertarian. In law school, I started to be more and more libertarian. Basically, I’m an anarcho-capitalist/follower of Austrian economics in the Murray Rothbard mold.
Although this question wasn’t asked, here are the 10 books which have most shaped my thinking (not in any particular order):
- “The Road to Serfdom” by F.A. Hayek
- “The Constitution of Liberty” by F.A. Hayek
- “The Discovery of Freedom” by Rose Wilder Lane
- “The Ethics of Liberty” by Murray Rothbard
- “Man, Economy, and State” by Murray Rothbard
- “Human Action: A Treatise on Economics” by Ludwig von Mises
- “Capitalism and Freedom” by Milton Friedman
- “Free to Choose: A Personal Statement” by Milton Friedman
- “Economics in One Lesson” by Henry Hazlitt
- “Libertarianism: A Primer” by David Boaz
TunaGill- great post, and a great reading list.
[quote]makkun wrote:
I’m a supporter of the German green party. That makes me an animal that doesn’t really fit into the American system: I am socially liberal (pro gay marriage, mostly pro choice), internationalist (pro UN, EU and NATO, anti-Iraq-war), economically I support social market capitalism (free markets with some restrictions to ensure basic social standards), environmentalist and I have the strong view that religion and state should be strictly separated (especially in schools). Hell, I am a heart-bleeding liberal. 
[/quote]
Amen.
I lived in Europe - mostly in The Netherlands, a bit also in the UK - for 3 years and while I was there I embraced that exact same political view. While in NL I had to travel often to Germany, have made some German friends and I’ve grown a lot of admiration for German politics in general, but, yes, especially for the modern German Green Party.
Being back in the US now I of course find it somehow difficult to fit that view into the US’ political landscape (the US “Green Party” is composed mostly of radical idiots who do more harm than good), even though in the area where I live - San Francisco - it’s not hard at all to find equally-minded people.
… and when election time comes I just pick the lesser of the evils…
TunaGill-
Your political evolution sounds remarkably similar to my own, though mine has taken place over a much smaller period of time. I?m curious, have you ever heard of www.friesian.com? If not, I highly recommend you check it out. From the looks of your reading habits, it is right up your alley.
I define myself as a happy, purple, “slapping that ass” dinosaur who tries hard to be open-minded to the extreme liberals on this board but never quite succeeds. An obofill is in idiot. That is all.
[quote]Vash wrote:
I am for…
the immolation of the morbidly obese.
the implementation of public flogging for the ignorant-opinionated.
I am for the removal of Jerry Falwell from the public eye. Same goes for Fox News and every other biased “news” organization on the planet.
I am against the Iraq War, the draft, and ignorance and anger disguised as patriotism.
.[/quote]
Brilliantly said.
I’m liberal.
I’m pro-promiscuity and drug use (not abuse)
I personally can’t believe why anyone would define themselves as a conservative, spending their lives trying to think of things to tell others not to do.
I’m pro-squat and anti-triceps kickback.
I’m pro-protein and anti-oxidants.
[quote]Vash wrote:
I am for the removal of Jerry Falwell from the public eye. Same goes for Fox News and every other biased “news” organization on the planet.[/quote]
I see where you are coming from with that but I have a slightly different take. I think it is fairly obvious that it is human nature to have biases. It seems to me, that asking a reporter, editor, or publisher to completely divorce him or herself from their political ideology isn?t really fair-eventually he or she will slip. Interestingly, for most of this nations history, news papers were openly biased; you knew who supported who not because you suspected bias but because they came out and told you who they supported.
I think Fox should come clean and say, “yes, its true, we like Republicans more than we like Democrats” and CBS, NBC, ABC, etc should admit they like Democrats more. Its not bias that bugs me, its being biased while claiming to be “Fair and Balanced” that pisses me off. All I ask is a little honesty…a little forthrightness…
[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
Vash wrote:
I am for the removal of Jerry Falwell from the public eye. Same goes for Fox News and every other biased “news” organization on the planet.
I see where you are coming from with that but I have a slightly different take. I think it is fairly obvious that it is human nature to have biases. It seems to me, that asking a reporter, editor, or publisher to completely divorce him or herself from their political ideology isn?t really fair-eventually he or she will slip. Interestingly, for most of this nations history, news papers were openly biased; you knew who supported who not because you suspected bias but because they came out and told you who they supported.
I think Fox should come clean and say, “yes, its true, we like Republicans more than we like Democrats” and CBS, NBC, ABC, etc should admit they like Democrats more. Its not bias that bugs me, its being biased while claiming to be “Fair and Balanced” that pisses me off. All I ask is a little honesty…a little forthrightness…[/quote]
Brilliantly said.
Now, if I can be excused, I feel dirty having stepped into the Politics arena. . . I need to wash myself . . .
[quote]deanosumo wrote:
I personally can’t believe why anyone would define themselves as a conservative, spending their lives trying to think of things to tell others not to do.
[/quote]
Please, please tell me one the thing that ‘conservatives’ are spending their lives telling you not to do. Abortion? Hardly a conservative-only position. Gay marraige? - same thing. Drugs? - ditto.
If we bother you so much - why don’t you ignore us? I really can’t remember spending a single moment of my life telling you not to do anything - except maybe triceps kickbacks.
If truth be told - it’s the left in this country that want to take things from us, and tell us not to do things. Socialism is the new heartbeat of the left.