How Can I Reach Over 300lb Bench?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
21

[quote]dayoff wrote:
Westside is based around a bench shirt, the guys who actually train Westside are the guys at westside, end of story, and all of those guys train to get their competition bench up. Anyone else who claims to train westside is just being silly, it’s better to say they use the max effort method and dynamic method.

Now does it make sense to use a training template that doesn’t even focus on what you want to do? ie, the raw bench? does it make sense for this kid to rotate his ME movements weekly and bench against bands? No, it’s not optimal, he’s training by himself in a commercial gym and still needs to learn how to bench. Does it make sense to follow a template that’s made for a raw lifter? Forget what the russians can do, it’s a raw bench program, and it’s excellent. I’d say that makes sense.Westside is based around a bench shirt, the guys who actually train Westside are the guys at westside, end of story, and all of those guys train to get their competition bench up. Anyone else who claims to train westside is just being silly, it’s better to say they use the max effort method and dynamic method.

I know your a professional and all Larry, but I feel you may be mistaken.

Travis Bell increased his raw bench from 365 to 565, while at the same time increased his shirted bench from 405 to 805. He did this in a 2 1/2 year period and he trains at Westside[/quote]

Hey man, I agree, Travis Bell is an awesome lifter… but he’s also an EXPERIENCED lifter… a new kid has no business training westside. Travis got simply stronger, he has shirt and raw form. this kid has no shirt.

I guess I should have made it clearer that newbies have no business doing anything but the basics.

22

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
You should post more Larry. I did Westside style training for a couple of years and my gains were extremely sporadic. Now that I’m doing just the main lifts, I’m making a lot of progress. How often do you squat, bench, and deadlift in the off season?[/quote]

Hey man, I follow the sheiko programs right now, so squat 2x, deadlift 1x bench 3x… I also do a ton of upper back and glute/ham work… I don’t really pay attention to sets and reps for those, I just treat them like an arm workout and pump the shit out of them.

23

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
Why wasn’t the first answer “get stronger”?[/quote]

because there’s more to it than simply getting stronger

24

I decided to do smolov jr. I will post results in a month from monday .Until then no more posting
and more eating.

25

[quote]razo530 wrote:
here is a video of 235.[/quote]

  1. Wrists are too far back, so the bar isn’t directly over your forearms / not a direct line of power / loss of mechanical efficiency

  2. Get on your upper back

  3. Arch tighter

  4. Need more leg drive

  5. Can’t tell exactly from that angle, but it doesn’t look like you go all the way down. Even if that was a touch-and-go, it’s too light of a touch

  6. Doesn’t look like you’re “tearing the bar apart” or “bending it backwards” / tightness across the bar doesn’t seem to be there

It’s a good bench, but there’s a lot of technique work to be fixed. Once you dial your technique in, you’ll be hitting some pretty major PRs.

26

[quote]razo530 wrote:
I decided to do smolov jr. I will post results in a month from monday .Until then no more posting
and more eating.
[/quote]

Hey man, why don’t you keep posting videos here and there just so you know if you’re on the right track or not.

Smolov jr is a badass template, just don’t forget about the upper back work!

best of luck

27

[quote]Larry10 wrote:
because there’s more to it than simply getting stronger[/quote]

Why would your first answer not be “get stronger”?

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[quote]black_angus1 wrote:

[quote]Larry10 wrote:
because there’s more to it than simply getting stronger[/quote]

Why would your first answer not be “get stronger”?
[/quote]

why get stronger when it can be technical? a lack of proper programming, or as Dave Tate wrote in his article today, something mental.

you can only get so strong before you have to get smart.

29

[quote]Larry10 wrote:
why get stronger when it can be technical? a lack of proper programming, or as Dave Tate wrote in his article today, something mental.

you can only get so strong before you have to get smart.[/quote]

For somebody at 6’1", 196lb, with a 250 bench, there is no reason to not work on getting stronger first.

30

For somebody at 6’1", 196lb, with a 250 bench, there is no reason to not work on getting stronger first.

How would you suggest he get stronger Black angus? Post something useful.

31

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:

[quote]Larry10 wrote:
why get stronger when it can be technical? a lack of proper programming, or as Dave Tate wrote in his article today, something mental.

you can only get so strong before you have to get smart.[/quote]

For somebody at 6’1", 196lb, with a 250 bench, there is no reason to not work on getting stronger first.
[/quote]

Hey man, I get what you’re saying… but think about it like this, I’ll use a personal story.

I simply didn’t understand how to lock out a bench. sounds silly, but it’s true. my 3 board and raw max have always been about the same. In keeping with popular belief, I trained the shit out of my triceps, but nothing happened.

Then one day not long ago, I was strugling with a bench about the same height I usually miss, and out of nowhere, I just locked it out the way you’re supposed to. It’s so new to me, I don’t even really know how to explain it. My bench went from a 365 max, to 375.

I would always try to pec it out, per say, and I’d constantly lose benches 3/4 up. Now I just use my triceps, and my bench has never felt better. I think this came from not locking out every rep during my training.

So there you go, I fixed my technique and got stronger, and I’ll likely avoid a pec tear down the road.

That’s what I mean about it not being as simple as getting stronger, there’s more to it than that. and someone who’s a beginner with a 250 bench needs to be focusing on technique much more than someone with a 350 bench who likely knows technique and simply needs to get stronger.

What do you think?

32

In my experience, the stronger you get, the more that technical adjustments can dramatically improve your bench. Beginners simply do not have the proprioceptive awareness to finely tune-in to the minutia of the technical aspects of any complex lift. They can get it generally, but it takes years to have enough awareness of yourself and how you perform the lift to make small adjustments and “perfect” technique.

In most cases, those at the beginning should learn, more or less, how to lift properly at the technical level, but I do agree that the accumulation of strength and time spent under the bar takes precedence before doing any technical fine-tuning.

That said, he’s got quite a bit off about his current bench technique that needs to be worked on before the “strength” phase of things. But once those are generally resolved, he can just work on strength until he gets to a point where the technical fine-tuning will really have a dramatic effect.

My two cents.

33

[quote]animus wrote:
In my experience, the stronger you get, the more that technical adjustments can dramatically improve your bench. Beginners simply do not have the proprioceptive awareness to finely tune-in to the minutia of the technical aspects of any complex lift. They can get it generally, but it takes years to have enough awareness of yourself and how you perform the lift to make small adjustments and “perfect” technique.

In most cases, those at the beginning should learn, more or less, how to lift properly at the technical level, but I do agree that the accumulation of strength and time spent under the bar takes precedence before doing any technical fine-tuning.

That said, he’s got quite a bit off about his current bench technique that needs to be worked on before the “strength” phase of things. But once those are generally resolved, he can just work on strength until he gets to a point where the technical fine-tuning will really have a dramatic effect.

My two cents.[/quote]

Hey man, I don’t know if I personally agree… but that post also makes perfect sense, something to think about.

really good post

34

I wish I had someone to teach me good bench form and what a balanced program was when I started. I wouldn’t have had a banged up shoulder for over 2 years. I’d probably be benching over 315 by now instead of just now closing in at 300. And a lot less hurt. Although, to be totally honest, changing from low bar to high bar squat had just as much to do with healing my shoulder as program balance and bench form.

35

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I wish I had someone to teach me good bench form and what a balanced program was when I started. I wouldn’t have had a banged up shoulder for over 2 years. I’d probably be benching over 315 by now instead of just now closing in at 300. And a lot less hurt. Although, to be totally honest, changing from low bar to high bar squat had just as much to do with healing my shoulder as program balance and bench form. [/quote]

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that technique isn’t important or for someone to NOT learn technique first. I think that’s just ridiculous.

But after “decent” technique is learned (i.e. how to arch, how to get leg drive, how to maintain tightness, where on the back to lay, etc), there are many smaller factors involved with “focusing on technique” that simply aren’t possible to newer lifters. It’s like teaching someone to squat and asking them to rotate their pelvis into an anterior tilt. You can do a lot to cue the movement, but often the trainee’s awareness of how to move that part of their body in isolation doesn’t exist yet.

So fine technical tuning can only occur when someone has enough time under the bar and enough technical practice to understand what it means to adjust this or that.

Basically, I mean teach the lift. All the basic components of good technique should be there. But it can still be far from perfect at first. The skill and the body awareness and the motor function haven’t been accumulated to a point where really detailed adjustments to form are possible.

36

[quote]dayoff wrote:
For somebody at 6’1", 196lb, with a 250 bench, there is no reason to not work on getting stronger first.

How would you suggest he get stronger Black angus? Post something useful.[/quote]

So getting stronger isn’t useful? But, all this mental masturbation and over analyzation on an internet forum is?

How about this for useful: Go fucking bench. Train as hard as you can for 6 months. Do things that you suck at, and go balls to the wall on what you’re good at. If there is something holding you back, GET STRONGER AT IT. Quit overthinking everything and get stronger. All over. Jesus fucking Christ. Why is this such a difficult concept to comprehend? It’s strength training. Let me say that again. Strength. Training. As in, you train your strength. You train to get stronger. You get stronger by training. Does that make sense?

The day that getting stronger does NOT work for somebody, especially a 16 year old, is the day I eat my shoe.

37

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:

[quote]dayoff wrote:
For somebody at 6’1", 196lb, with a 250 bench, there is no reason to not work on getting stronger first.

How would you suggest he get stronger Black angus? Post something useful.[/quote]

So getting stronger isn’t useful? But, all this mental masturbation and over analyzation on an internet forum is?

How about this for useful: Go fucking bench. Train as hard as you can for 6 months. Do things that you suck at, and go balls to the wall on what you’re good at. If there is something holding you back, GET STRONGER AT IT. Quit overthinking everything and get stronger. All over. Jesus fucking Christ. Why is this such a difficult concept to comprehend? It’s strength training. Let me say that again. Strength. Training. As in, you train your strength. You train to get stronger. You get stronger by training. Does that make sense?

The day that getting stronger does NOT work for somebody, especially a 16 year old, is the day I eat my shoe.[/quote]

You’re not impressing anyone man. I get what you’re trying to do.

“The problem is that roughly 70% of sticking points are really technique related, 20% are physical, and the remaining 10% are mental. So most stuck lifters looking for help are like dogs sniffing around the wrong fire hydrant.” -Dave Tate

What if he doesn’t know how to bench properly? Is your answer to get stronger with shit form? Have you ever seen a technique improvement add 50lbs to someone’s lift in a matter of minutes? It happens.

The reason no one said “get stronger” is because that’s assumed. We’re all trying to get stronger here. It’s not like he isn’t fucking lifting and is asking how to improve his bench. There’s no shame in putting some thought into your lifting. If it were as simple as “just get stronger and bench more” then every frat bro would be benching 450. You really aren’t posting anything constructive, so I’m confused why you’re even here.

38

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:

[quote]dayoff wrote:
For somebody at 6’1", 196lb, with a 250 bench, there is no reason to not work on getting stronger first.

How would you suggest he get stronger Black angus? Post something useful.[/quote]

So getting stronger isn’t useful? But, all this mental masturbation and over analyzation on an internet forum is?

How about this for useful: Go fucking bench. Train as hard as you can for 6 months. Do things that you suck at, and go balls to the wall on what you’re good at. If there is something holding you back, GET STRONGER AT IT. Quit overthinking everything and get stronger. All over. Jesus fucking Christ. Why is this such a difficult concept to comprehend? It’s strength training. Let me say that again. Strength. Training. As in, you train your strength. You train to get stronger. You get stronger by training. Does that make sense?

The day that getting stronger does NOT work for somebody, especially a 16 year old, is the day I eat my shoe.[/quote]

powerlifting is strength/ SKILL

it’s a fucking skill man, training isn’t enough, you have to practice, over and over.

all your shit about hard work blah blah, it’s not a badge of honor, it’s a requirement, you have to bust nuts all the time… but everyone is doing that, and not everyone is blowing up.

Here’s a video of Kade Weber, a good friend of mine and one of my training partners. Here he is squatting 700 benching 500 and pulling 800… he’s done 800x3 in the gym. Kade started just doing sheiko routines over and over, he’s never done a box squat or leg press. He has no ego at all, and when he’s not getting ready for a meet he won’t even squat over 500lbs. The most complicated I’ve seen him get is cable rows and back work on deadlift day. To peak for a meet he’ll use russian power, a very simple and brutal peaking program. He is 22 years old and a perfect example of strength/skill… his technique on all lifts is perfect, he’s only been lifting for 7 years, but this is what happens when you don’t fuck around just trying to get strong, but instead practice and pay attention to the real shit that matters. I learn something from Kade all the time.

39

God damn that was a pretty squat.

40

Oh my God. This is still going on. At 16 and pretty relatively weak, JUST GO TRAIN. YOU WORK ON TECHNIQUE AS YOU TRAIN. Are you supposed to never use weight, just try to somehow perfect technique for 27 years? It’s a completely stupid concept.

-Drive with your legs.
-Arch your entire back.
-Squeeze your shoulders together and down really hard.
-Squeeze the fuck out of the bar.
-Touch your sternum/lower chest.

That is really all you need to worry about for a long while…Why try and analyze his technique like you would an elite lifter, or say “well, maybe his sticking point blah blah blah”? If you have a “sticking point” with 250, you are just a big sticking point lol. Would you worry about fine tuning an engine, or putting a supercharger on a stock Toyota Corolla with 35 RWHP? Fucking no. You’d beef it up, cover the basics, then fine tune it later. If he benches 250 and is only 16, JUST BENCHING EVERY GODDAMN WEEK WILL DO WONDERS. 250-300 in a year should be cake if he puts the effort.