T Nation

How and When to Reset When Stalling


#1

Hi guys,

First of all I would like to thanks Jim for the 531. After 9 cycle of 531, I gets stronger, my joint are healthier, and I’m more motivated compared to before.

So my question is how and when to reset? I got the book, read it few times, I understand the basic idea about reset when fail to hit requited reps or fail to maintain the right posture, however there are few things that need clarification;

  • Do I reset on the same day I’m unable to hit required reps? Immediately reduce 10% of TM and start with a new TM on that particular day?
  • Do I reset the same exercise on next lifting day? Let’s say I fail to hit required reps for overhead press on Monday, should I reduce 10% of TM and do overhead press again on Wednesday?
  • What if I’m unable to hit required reps for deadlift on week 2, should I reduce 10% of deadlift TM, hit required reps on next lifting day with new TM? Or should I deload and restart the cycle from week 1.
  • Should I continue with assistance exercise when I fail to hit the required reps for main lift? Or should I just stop the session immediately?

Currently on cycle 10 week 1 and my overhead press is stalling. Only able to complete 2/5 for the final main set even after longer resting period. Last deload is after 9th cycle, not a diet queen, and I do get enough rest.

Been doing BBB for previous 9 cycle and currently trying Simplest Strength Template because I want to try something else. Previously I also stalled at my overhead press and deadlift before I started 531.

Thank you.


Will 5/3/1 Forever Come to Kindle?
#2

Do I reset on the same day I’m unable to hit required reps? Immediately reduce 10% of TM and start with a new TM on that particular day?

You should NEVER reach this point - either use the 7th Week Protocol or use the “5@95” mantra. Again, this should NEVER EVER be a problem. Ever. Each 3 cycle program is began with the correct TM. Once the 3 cycle program is done, you reassess. We never increase more than 5/10 and many times, you have to back up. What this does is assure that you have the correct TM for each program. If you don’t do this, you will screw yourself up long and short term.

Do I reset the same exercise on next lifting day? Let’s say I fail to hit required reps for overhead press on Monday, should I reduce 10% of TM and do overhead press again on Wednesday?

You should never have that problem - see above.

What if I’m unable to hit required reps for deadlift on week 2, should I reduce 10% of deadlift TM, hit required reps on next lifting day with new TM? Or should I deload and restart the cycle from week 1.

See above.

Should I continue with assistance exercise when I fail to hit the required reps for main lift? Or should I just stop the session immediately?

I’d finish the workout.

Like stated above, all of these problems have been addressed with the aforementioned solutions.


#3

A very big thank you for the reply Jim. Wow! I discover a lot from that reply. So my conclusion is I been screwing my TM for all these time. No wonder I feel so bad since my last cycle.

I try to dig “7th Week Protocol” in T-Nation forum but not much:




So from my understanding 5x95 means;

  • Try to hit 5x95 at 6th week to determine next cycle TM. Or what do you mean is try to hit 5x95 during deload week to determine next Cycle TM? Care to clarify this part?
  • Increase 5 - 10 lbs to specific lift if able to hit 5x95
  • Decrease 10% from 85% TM of specific lift if unable to hit 5x95, then try 5x95 again at next cycle for determine next cycle TM.
  • Proceed with deload using any Beyond deload variation on the 7th week.

And other questions;

  • Do you mean reassess by feeling of each rep, set and body posture?
  • When you say I have to back up, does this mean reduce my current 90% TM to 85% TM and start from cycle 1 again?

I’m very sorry if for asking too much question and sorry if I get the reply wrong. I prefer to be curse rather than repeating the same mistake and regress.


#4
  1. it’s 5 reps at 95%. I don’t know how else to answer this. It’s not about the 6th week either. 3 cycles. At the end of the 3rd cycle, you should be able to hit a very, very strong 5 reps @ 95%.
  2. Yes.
  3. No - decrease the amount needed; it may not be 10%, though. It’s simply about using the correct TM for each and every program (each program has specific guidelines). So the point is to never, EVER start a new 5/3/1 program with the wrong TM.
  4. all Deloads are now 7th Week Protocol Deloads.

Other questions:

  1. I have no idea what this means.
  2. Again, no idea what this means.

Do 2 cycles of 5’s PRO, BBB. Then do 1 cycle of PR sets and 5x5 FSL. On the final week of this 3 cycle PROGRAM, you should be able to hit 5 strong reps.

Yes? - start new program and add the requisite pounds to your TM.
NO? - adjust your TM so that it is correct.

Very, very easy.


#5

Is the idea to just keep repeating this 3 cycle program many times? Regardless of how well you do on the 3rd cycle would it be a good idea to calculate a new TM before starting this over again based on your PR sets? Or do you just add requisite pounds and keep going for another 3 cycles and only adjust TM if you stall by not hitting 5 strong reps by the end?


#6

This is all explained in the book - you DO NOT adjust higher if you get a better PR. I can’t tell you how horrible of an idea this is, but I’ll try: This is a horrible fucking idea.


#7

That’s not what I meant. I’m assuming the adjusted TM would most likely be less than the TM you get by adding requisite pounds because nobody is realistically going to progress 10lbs per 3 weeks on DL or whatever for a long period of time.

Example
TM = 300lbs 95% = 285lbs
You get 6 reps on the last week which is an estimated 1RM of 342
Take 85% of this and your new TM would be 290 which is lower. By not adjusting you’d add 10lbs and the training max would be 310.

Sure there might be a case where someone might do this and get a ton of reps and a new higher training max but in my experience it would be very close if not a tiny bit lower.


#8

Don’t overthink it, just give yourself this one step quiz at the end of each 5/3/1+ week:

Did you get AT LEAST 5 strong reps with 95%?

If YES, add 5lbs for bench/press or 10lb for lower squat deadlift, start next cycle.

If NO, find a weight where you can hit 5 strong reps in the lift and use that as your new TM for the next cycle (this means you WILL get over 5 reps on your 95% week which is the idea).

That’s literally all you need for smart long term progress.


Increasing TM After Anchor Deload?
#9

Yes, you can increase it by 5lbs.


#10

Thank you very much Jim, will do as you say. I guess it’s true, I overthink and that’s why I messed up a simple program.

Thank you again very much.


#11

Thank you, you’re right. I overthink. Now all I need to do is stick to the program and keep progressing.


#12

“Do 2 cycles of 5’s PRO, BBB. Then do 1 cycle of PR sets and 5x5 FSL. On the final week of this 3 cycle PROGRAM, you should be able to hit 5 strong reps”

Waiting semi-patiently for the Kindle version​ of Forever, where I’m sure this is covered, but when you say “cycle” here, are you talking full 4 week cycles? That is, are you taking deloads on each of the 3 cycles, or just at the end of the 3-cycle program?


#13

Deloads every cycle are not necessary anymore, most people seem to do 2 cycles then deload. With the program you just quoted you would do something like 2 cycles, deload 1 cycle deload, repeat that again or try some new variation. The whole thing is basically a training block so you deload during a block when its necessary and always deload at the end before starting a new one. The new book outlines different ways to deload so with what I said above both deloads might be different. But really its just a deload so you can’t go wrong by doing whatever that means for you, its just a week of lifting less than you normally would, pretty simple concept the details are not as important.


#14

Got it. Thanks!


#15

Followed your advise and I felt much stronger. 5 solid reps and most important is I felt better in daily activity compared to my previous session. But I still need some green light from you regarding my routine as below;

Cycle 1-2

D1:
Deadlift 5’s Pro
Deadlift BBB
Hanging knee raise 10x3
Leg curl 10x3
Good morning 10x3
Dumbbell shrug 10x3/ Kroc row 20 reps

D2:
Bench press 5’s Pro
Bench press BBB
Dumbell row 10x3
Dumbell curl 10x3
Dumbell triceps extension 10x3
Pendlay row 10x3

D3:
Squats 5’s Pro
Squats BBB
Hanging knee raise 10x3
Leg curl 10x3
Good morning 10x3
Dumbbell shrug 10x3/ Kroc row 20 reps

D4:
Overhead press 5’s Pro
Overhead press BBB
Dumbell row 10x3
Dumbell curl 10x3
Dumbell triceps extension 10x3
Pendlay row 10x3

Conditioning done on none lifting day.

Cycle 3:

D1:
Deadlift 5’s Pro
Deadlift FSL
Hanging knee raise 10x3
Leg curl 10x3
Good morning 10x3
Dumbbell shrug 10x3/ Kroc row 20 reps

D2:
Bench press 5’s Pro
Bench press FSL
Dumbell row 10x3
Dumbell curl 10x3
Dumbell triceps extension 10x3
Pendlay row 10x3

D3:
Squats 5’s Pro
Squats FSL
Hanging knee raise 10x3
Leg curl 10x3
Good morning 10x3
Dumbbell shrug 10x3/ Kroc row 20 reps

D4:
Overhead press 5’s Pro
Overhead press FSL
Dumbell row 10x3
Dumbell curl 10x3
Dumbell triceps extension 10x3
Pendlay row 10x3

Deload only on 7th week.

I only Increase TM when I able to do 5 solid reps. Unable to do dips and chin/ pull up since it will caused me shoulder pain, thus I pick dumbbell, Pendlay, kroc row and hanging knee raise.

I only have 2nd and Beyond 531 as my reference, so my question is; is this template acceptable or do I need to remove some of accessories exercises. There’s a time I felt like accessories lift consumed too much time but most of the time I able to superset them with main lift without compromising my main lift.


#16

So I go through the book again and it seems like I’d been doing too much assistance work. I guess I’m gonna make it simple like in the BBB template which are;

  • 10x5 abs work for deadlift and squat.
  • 10x5 lats work for benchpress and overhead press, and some biceps, triceps and upper back exercise if time allow.

#17

Yes - your assistance plan is really, really bad.

Just pick from the 3 categories and use your head. It is so damn simple; just use the layout and a glimmer of common sense. And if you don’t know, FOLLOW THE PRINCIPLES.

If people followed PRINCIPLES, everything would change for the better.


#18

Hi sir, which categories?

Just an update, done with my deadlift, overhead press and squat day, followed the book, I felt much better now.


#19

Push
Pull
Core


#20

Alright, thank you very much. Understood.