T Nation

House Passes Student Loan Takeover


#1

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32895942/ns/business-personal_finance/

They never quit. Now here comes:


#2

I give up. There’s really no point in complaining. Once the government gets ahold of something, it’ll never let go. The thing becomes a political third-rail, untouchable. Every voter convinced they’re entitled to a college education–only to work in a completely unrelated field that really requires nothing more than a mediocre high-school education–will oppose candidates who’d try to reverse this.


#3

The story of Government takeover and expansion can not be hidden any longer. We have some great points to make in 2010 after all this dust settles, we can “reform” all this crap…but again, the gov only releases control of things by force.

Party line votes will kill the dems in 2010.

Only 6 Republicans voted for this…probably the usuall cronies.


#4

CLICK TO ENLARGE

Where was this outrage when Bush increased the size of the National Government by 1/3? This partisan bickering is exasperating.

The fact that the right is upset about the same things the left was upset about, but did not speak out about because a republican was in charge says a lot about the people on the right wing of politics. I am staying on the left, both in belief and my vote until I see constituents, politicians, and the media on the right hold themselves to the same standard they hold the left. Czars are nothing new. Rewind time and protest Bush…then you can be taken seriously.

Democrats won, get over it.


#5

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Where was this outrage when Bush increased the size of the National Government by 1/3? This partisan bickering is exasperating.

The fact that the right is upset about the same things the left was upset about, but did not speak out about because a republican was in in charge says a lot about the right wing of politics. I am staying on the left, both in belief and my vote until I see constituents on the right hold themselves to the same standard they hold the left. Czars are nothing new. Rewind time and protest Bush…then you can be taken seriously.

Democrats won, get over it.

[/quote]

Bush’s high 20 through low 30 approval rating doesn’t tell you that people where mad at him? Don’t let silly things like facts get in your way.

The only change you Progressives gave was the same shit only a hell of a lot faster. If you truly hated bush’s policies you would absolutely detest Obama’s policies. When the Left holds themselves to the same standards as they hold the right I may die of shock.


#6

[quote]John S. wrote:
Petedacook wrote:

Bush’s high 20 through low 30 approval rating doesn’t tell you that people where mad at him? Don’t let silly things like facts get in your way.

The only change you Progressives gave was the same shit only a hell of a lot faster. If you truly hated bush’s policies you would absolutely detest Obama’s policies. When the Left holds themselves to the same standards as they hold the right I may die of shock.[/quote]

Well, actually I enjoy facts. Like the fact that the 30% that approved Bush are now complaining about Obama.

9/12 was organized by Dick Armey and Glenn Beck. The right is so hypocritical it is staggering.

In regards to my feelings on Obama’s policies, I find the new boss is looking more and more like the old boss. While he is new, and deserves a chance to fix the train wreck Bush left the office in, may patience with Obama’s grace period is quickly waning.

I did not truly detest Bush until the end o0f his first term, Obama is climbing the heights of my disrespect much, MUCH faster.

Preventive detention, patriot act, secrecy, signing statements, saying one thing and doing another…where should I begin with what I dislike about Obama?

Then fact is, Fox Network bashes Obama no matter what he does. In contrast, Olberman, Maddow, Stewart, have all trashed Obama as well when it has been deserved.

The job of the media is to cover news, not sponsor it…does 9/12 protest ring a bell?

So where was your outrage when bush was in office? Can you show one single documented complaint of bush policies? Perhaps you should turn on TV…I think Beck is on.


#7

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
John S. wrote:
Petedacook wrote:

Then fact is, Fox Network bashes Obama no matter what he does. In contrast, Olberman, Maddow, Stewart, have all trashed Obama as well when it has been deserved.

The job of the media is to cover news, not sponsor it…does 9/12 protest ring a bell?

So where was your outrage when bush was in office? Can you show one single documented complaint of bush policies? Perhaps you should turn on TV…I think Beck is on.
[/quote]

How did fox sponsor the protest? Glenn beck is a commentator. And is what Gretta did any different then what the media did for the war protesters? They did the right thing following them as is Fox doing the right thing following the 9/12 protesters.

Where was the media on Van Jones? Where were they on the Acorn corruption?.. Wait maybe that’s why all the other media networks have such low viewer ratings.

And you can see from my thread just a couple days ago called, And “You Thought the Patriot acts was bad.” that the title pretty much says I do not like the patriot act. It had its uses but it should have been gotten rid of a long time ago.

So what other points do you have that I can shoot down?


#8

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
John S. wrote:
Petedacook wrote:

Bush’s high 20 through low 30 approval rating doesn’t tell you that people where mad at him? Don’t let silly things like facts get in your way.

The only change you Progressives gave was the same shit only a hell of a lot faster. If you truly hated bush’s policies you would absolutely detest Obama’s policies. When the Left holds themselves to the same standards as they hold the right I may die of shock.

Well, actually I enjoy facts. Like the fact that the 30% that approved Bush are now complaining about Obama.

[/quote]

This is fucking ridiculous spin.

No president in the history of our country has ever had a ZERO approval rating. Grow up.


#9

[quote]John S. wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
John S. wrote:
Petedacook wrote:

So what other points do you have that I can shoot down?[/quote]

Ugh, how about the giant point that you continue to ignore. All of your outrage is towards Obama. Where was your outrage towards Bush?

Can you document any stance you took AGAINST Bush?

In your other thread, I already proved you wrong with the deficit. You chose to blame Obama for what Bush did. At that point it became clear facts mean nothing to you. There are no facts with you, just contrived right wing Tom Foolery, and gun ho patriotic jingoism.


#10

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

This is fucking ridiculous spin.

No president in the history of our country has ever had a ZERO approval rating. Grow up.
[/quote]

Perhaps instead of calling names, and throwing accusations; you should challenge my statement with facts. That is how grown ups debate civilly.


#11

[quote]John S. wrote:
P

How did fox sponsor the protest? Glenn beck is a commentator. [/quote]

I am not sure how you can possibly not know Glenn Beck was a major sponsor of the protests. You were there. I would think you knew it was part of his 912 project.

CNN Covers Huge Washington Protest While Ignoring Its Planner: Glenn Beck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM1f5xrOfGU

Glenn Beck Launches the 912 Project
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1563722/glenn_beck_launches_the_912_project.html?cat=9

Glenn Beck and The 9/12 Marchers:

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/glenn-beck-and-the-912-ma_b_284387.html

Glenn Beck and The 9/12 Marchers: Subversives From Within

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/glenn-beck-and-the-912-ma_b_284387.html

Exploiting 9/11, Glenn Beck, Extremists And Corporate-Backed Groups Plan Anti-Obama March
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/09/912-march-lobbyists/

Like I said, show me some outrage before…


#12

Who cares about who sponsored what? The topic is about government gobbling about whatever it can blindly reach for. Well, specifically student loans being taken over completely.


#13

I don’t really care one way or the other on this one.

My wife took out a student loan to get her masters a couple years ago. Because she’s a teacher she’s eligible for a loan forgiveness program that they offer, which could be up to about $5k. I can’t pay off the loan until she gets final word on the loan forgiveness, which they won’t do. Every time she files the paperwork they tell her she has to wait two to three months to get an answer, so we wait, and keep paying interest, and then they tell her the application is too old, or she used the wrong one (which was the one they emailed her to use) or every other excuse imaginable. Every time she calls they tell her she’s eligible and they don’t see any problem with the paperwork, then they reject it again anyway.

So we’re on the last try as far as I’m concerned, if this one gets rejected I’m just going to pay it off and fuck Sallie Mae. So no, I don’t care if the government takes over student loans and fires every fucking body at Sallie Mae.


#14

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Who cares about who sponsored what? The topic is about government gobbling about whatever it can blindly reach for. Well, specifically student loans being taken over completely.[/quote]

Rewind time and protest Bush…then you can be taken seriously.


#15

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Who cares about who sponsored what? The topic is about government gobbling about whatever it can blindly reach for. Well, specifically student loans being taken over completely.

Rewind time and protest Bush…then you can be taken seriously. [/quote]

Uh, I have criticized Bush frequently on this board. I won’t even vote Republican anymore after seeing that phony play at being a conservative. You can search my posts, pal. So, now you’re stuck considering me seriously.


#16

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Who cares about who sponsored what? The topic is about government gobbling about whatever it can blindly reach for. Well, specifically student loans being taken over completely.

Rewind time and protest Bush…then you can be taken seriously. [/quote]

Bush and McCain were beaten to death here. What’s it gonna take for this to sink in with some of you guys? I know speak for others here when I say the following.

I have a set of principles that make up a worldview. THOSE are my measure, not, nOT, NNNNNOT personalities or parties. They are based deeply in the original intent of the founders of this nation.

I apply those standards on a case by case basis. If Obama, Pelosi and Reid began supporting those principles tomorrow, I’d campaign for them myself. When Bush or McCain or anybody else violates those principles they are on my shitlist on those issues.

The difference between Bush and Obama is when Bush was wrong he wasn’t consciously trying to recreate the United States in the image of some braindead 60’s hippy fantasy. He was just wrong. Obama told us he would transform America.

Some of us ignored the campaign and looked at his record thus concluding that if elected he would, in conjunction with a house and senate in the hands of almost equally anti American nutcases, try to turn this nation into an Alinsky inspired nightmare by vacumining up as much central power as quickly as possible.

I said that in those words and they are doing EXACTLY that. Right out of the communist activist handbook. They’ve been doing it for decades and are now moving in for the kill as I type this. Create a crisis, induce fear and implement an alleged solution that escalates the crisis requiring another “BIGGER” solution all of which just happens to increase federal power every step of the way.

How can’t people see this??? Name me one damn thing they’ve proposed that demonstrates any confidence whatsoever in we the people. Every single step is GIMME GIMME GIMME MONEY MONEY MONEY… in the trillions so WE CAN SAVE YOU from the consequences of all the other 50 years of outta control spending and intrusion we’ve already done.

That is not the United States as envisioned at the first constitutional convention and is hence not American at all. It is in fact the EXACT state of affairs those men warned they were founding this nation to avoid. If you don’t like that then fine. Just don’t try n tell me this is the American way.


#17

It is never ending with this shit, I say that no one pays their taxes anymore. They are not responsible with our money, so they don’t get it. Fuck them.


#18

There is an extremely strong psychological tendency in many to be utterly convinced – actually beyond this, to be unable to even conceive of anything different – that others surely operate as they do.

With many given persons on the left, this means that since they never criticize (substantively, anyway) any important, if indeed any at all, Democrat politician, this results in their being positive that those criticizing Democrat politicians surely must never have criticized Republican politicians.

Therefore, they are utterly convinced that you and others clearly never criticized Bush – “why, obviously just as I don’t criticize Obama you wouldn’t have criticized Bush” being the knee-jerk mental process – when in fact countless severe criticisms were made on the exact points in question.

It is inconceivable to them that you would have done that, since they would never have criticized “their side.” All they know is partisan argumentation and party-line “thinking,” and so they can’t even conceive that what you have to say could be differently driven.

However as you say, the fact is that Bush received vast amounts of criticism for the same things Obama is doing but at an even greater rate (drastically greater.)


#19

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Who cares about who sponsored what? The topic is about government gobbling about whatever it can blindly reach for. Well, specifically student loans being taken over completely.

Rewind time and protest Bush…then you can be taken seriously.

Bush and McCain were beaten to death here. What’s it gonna take for this to sink in with some of you guys? I know speak for others here when I say the following.

I have a set of principles that make up a worldview. THOSE are my measure, not, nOT, NNNNNOT personalities or parties. They are based deeply in the original intent of the founders of this nation.

I apply those standards on a case by case basis. If Obama, Pelosi and Reid began supporting those principles tomorrow, I’d campaign for them myself. When Bush or McCain or anybody else violates those principles they are on my shitlist on those issues.

The difference between Bush and Obama is when Bush was wrong he wasn’t consciously trying to recreate the United States in the image of some braindead 60’s hippy fantasy. He was just wrong. Obama told us he would transform America.

Some of us ignored the campaign and looked at his record thus concluding that if elected he would, in conjunction with a house and senate in the hands of almost equally anti American nutcases, try to turn this nation into an Alinsky inspired nightmare by vacumining up as much central power as quickly as possible.

I said that in those words and they are doing EXACTLY that. Right out of the communist activist handbook. They’ve been doing it for decades and are now moving in for the kill as I type this. Create a crisis, induce fear and implement an alleged solution that escalates the crisis requiring another “BIGGER” solution all of which just happens to increase federal power every step of the way.

How can’t people see this??? Name me one damn thing they’ve proposed that demonstrates any confidence whatsoever in we the people. Every single step is GIMME GIMME GIMME MONEY MONEY MONEY… in the trillions so WE CAN SAVE YOU from the consequences of all the other 50 years of outta control spending and intrusion we’ve already done.

That is not the United States as envisioned at the first constitutional convention and is hence not American at all. It is in fact the EXACT state of affairs those men warned they were founding this nation to avoid. If you don’t like that then fine. Just don’t try n tell me this is the American way.[/quote]

I guess you are missing the posts on this forum. Even your post insinuates a bias toward the right wing.

[quote]Party line votes will kill the dems in 2010.

Only 6 Republicans voted for this…probably the usuall cronies. [/quote]

Further, I fail to see a problem with this bill, as it is summarized in the article.

Specifically what is wrong with this?

Please explain what is wrong with saving money? Keep in mind my college loans are already federal.

Oh…and Sloth…did you forget this?

[quote]petedacook wrote:
So far I am leaning toward not debating with you, because you seem to be a bobble head. I will continue for now, but If you do not respond to this with a fact based, intelligent, logical argument; and instead choose the route of insults or not adding any thought, I will not debate with you any further. I am not here for games.[/quote]

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/charlie_sheens_message_for_president_obama?id=3313502&pageNo=2

You chose to ignore that statement and go on about BS posts. By the way…I dont think we are pals.


#20

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Oh…and Sloth…did you forget this?

petedacook wrote:
So far I am leaning toward not debating with you, because you seem to be a bobble head. I will continue for now, but If you do not respond to this with a fact based, intelligent, logical argument; and instead choose the route of insults or not adding any thought, I will not debate with you any further. I am not here for games.

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/charlie_sheens_message_for_president_obama?id=3313502&pageNo=2

You chose to ignore that statement and go on about BS posts. By the way…I dont think we are pals.

[/quote]

Don’t worry, “pal” was used as a figure of speech.

You made an assumption about my support for Bush and his legacy. You were dead wrong, and you should’ve admitted that much. I wouldn’t have rubbed your nose in it.