[quote]The Stig wrote:
Call me old fashioned, but I never liked the wired effects of ECA or other stimulants like Yohimbe. I don’t dig anxiety.[/quote]
Sting, I like a little edge but not a “twitchy” feeling that is for sure. Thanks for the brain power man!
Rifle
[quote]The Stig wrote:
SWR, ephedrine is thought to impart a marked anti-catabolic effect hence its use after cycles of androgenic testosterone analogues. There would probably have been a muscle loss effect from the reduced calorie intake besides any reductions in adipose tissue.
Apart from the fact it does get you wired in the stack and there are health issues it still is effective and compared to other beta agonists like Clenbuterol does not down regulate as fast, as well as having less of the unwanted side effects like the inotropic and chonotropic effects on the heart.
In summary, use the HOT-ROX the complicated science bit has already been done, all you have to do is take it.
[/quote]
There was no reduced calorie intake. As I posted above, my appetite was suppressed, but I managed to eat the same amount of calories, and even took in more calories throughout the 10 months while using it.
The catabolic effect was most likely due to the excessive cardio.
Also, it doesn’t get me wired (not any more noticeably than I’ve felt with caffeine alone). It can affect other people differently, so I understand that it may get others wired.
I would like to know of some studies that show the negative health issues and where it’s been shown to effect the heart rate and force of the heart’s muscle contraction any more than caffeine alone.
What I mean is, I knew that caffeine by it’s self is inotropic and chronotropic (and therefore anything with caffeine in it naturally would be too), but are there studies showing that adding ephedrine make it even more so?
Also, if everyone thought ‘the complicated science has already been done, so just take it’ with everything they put into their bodies, there would be no need to debate the quality, effectiveness, or health issues of any supplement.
It’s been a while since I read up on EC or ECA stacks (as you can probably tell), but I do remember reading many articles, checking references, and coming to the conclusion that it was more than safe enough for me to take without feeling that I was risking my health.
Were you implying other health issues, other than increasing hear rate and the heart’s force of muscle contraction?
If so, it would definitly be worth checking into, so references would be helpful.
Thanks,
[quote]ThisIsMyRifle wrote:
Would you consider increasing you dosage of ephedrine and caffine over a period of time. [/quote]
No, there is no benefit going over the recommended dosage (20mgE/200mgC)
There is no need for the aspirin unless you are morbidly obese.
IME HOT-ROX has done nothing for me. Meaning no increased fat loss, no appetite suppressent, nothing of that nature.
When using anything (E/C, HOT-ROX, etc) ALWAYS start with a very small dosage to assess tolerance. Part of the reason that they have banned Ephedra is because people are idiots. They either think more is better or they just jump right in. Do not do that.
Don’t mix Ephedrine with Yohimbine. Keep them at least 4 hours apart as they both increase BP and heart rate.
Take Ephedrine hcl instead of Ephedra. Much cleaner. I never “feel” anything when I take Ephedrine and caffiene. I can pop one of each and go right to bed. But they still work.
And stop going by feel. That’s why crack heads rob for more crack, they need to “feel” it. If you need to feel something to think it’s working, on your next diet, eat less and hit your dick with a hammer. YOu’ll know it’s working then.
is there any reason not to take HOT-ROX and ECA simultaneously?
[quote]SWR-1222D wrote:
Also, if everyone thought ‘the complicated science has already been done, so just take it’ with everything they put into their bodies, there would be no need to debate the quality, effectiveness, or health issues of any supplement.
Thanks,[/quote]
I was just referring to HOT-ROX, Biotest go a long way to justify the products and I don’t think they would market something that did not work. That’s all I meant.
[quote]garethhe wrote:
is there any reason not to take HOT-ROX and ECA simultaneously?[/quote]
I would not.
Ahh… I was wondering about that study that was mentioned earlier on the Nation. I believe it involved 90 people and was to show the efficacy of HOT-ROX?? is there ANYTHING else you can tell us Cy?
[quote]The Stig wrote:
garethhe wrote:
is there any reason not to take HOT-ROX and ECA simultaneously?
I would not.
[/quote]
OK, but why not?
Wait, I’m feeling a bit noobish - but aren’t ephedrine HCL and ephedra the same thing? I always though ephedra was just the nick name for ephedrine HCL?
[quote]garethhe wrote:
The Stig wrote:
garethhe wrote:
is there any reason not to take HOT-ROX and ECA simultaneously?
I would not.
OK, but why not?[/quote]
HOT-ROX should never be used concurrently with ephedrine and caffeine or any other fat loss supplements. Either use one or the other.
Doing so could result in very serious adverse effects.
The only HOT-ROX I’ve tried was from GNC, and I got nothing (as far as fat loss) out of it. I don’t know if that is because it is so watered down compared to the HOT-ROX available here, or if it was because I had been taking EC for 4 years straight.
I’m about to start cutting and I’m torn between ordering the HOT-ROX off of this site or just going back on the EC (been off for about a year now).
[quote]doogie wrote:
The only HOT-ROX I’ve tried was from GNC, and I got nothing (as far as fat loss) out of it. I don’t know if that is because it is so watered down compared to the HOT-ROX available here, or if it was because I had been taking EC for 4 years straight.
I’m about to start cutting and I’m torn obetween ordering the HOT-ROX off of this site or just going back on the EC (been off for about a year now).[/quote]
Were you monitoring calorie intake when you took it ?
If you are not monitoring calorie intake whilst using weight loss supplements then you its hard to gauge or even obtain results.
The weight loss people experience with Ephedra whilst not following specific monitored calorific intake is typically from the appetite suppression (hypophagia).
How this works is ephedrine facilitates the release of adrenaline and noradrenaline stimulates the alpha adrenoreceptor subtype which is known to induce hypophagia.
[quote]Jujimufu wrote:
Wait, I’m feeling a bit noobish - but aren’t ephedrine HCL and ephedra the same thing? I always though ephedra was just the nick name for ephedrine HCL?[/quote]
No, ephedra is the herbal version that also has other alkaloids. Ephedrine HCL is the synthetic version of just Ephedrine.
Are actual pre-formulated ECA stacks being sold again?
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Are actual pre-formulated ECA stacks being sold again?[/quote]
Yes, although the dosage is only 10mg of ephedra. But I’m not sure how or if they are playing with the dosages of the rest of the stack.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Are actual pre-formulated ECA stacks being sold again?[/quote]
I’ve seen a few on various websites, however they are very expensive and use a small dose of ephedra (I believe 10mg or so)…
Personally, I think your better off just getting some Ephedrine Hcl, and making your own E/C stack, its done wonders for me for preworkout and best of all its very cost effective 
[quote]dvv wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Are actual pre-formulated ECA stacks being sold again?
I’ve seen a few on various websites, however they are very expensive and use a small dose of ephedra (I believe 10mg or so)…
Personally, I think your better off just getting some Ephedrine Hcl, and making your own E/C stack, its done wonders for me for preworkout and best of all its very cost effective :)[/quote]
Agreed. I found this to be the best way to go.
[quote]Cy Willson wrote:
g
HOT-ROX should never be used concurrently with ephedrine and caffeine or any other fat loss supplements. Either use one or the other.
Doing so could result in very serious adverse effects. [/quote]
thank you Cy, i’m taking your advice. i do see how it is a good idea to take one fat loss supplement at a time, and also that prolonged exposure to any particular supplement can be ineffective and/or dangerous.
it sounds to me like cycling ECA and HOT-ROX is a solid plan. does anybody have any suggestions on how long one should be on each? and is there a third fat loss option that is relatively effective, safe, and not overpriced?
[quote]garethhe wrote:
Cy Willson wrote:
g
HOT-ROX should never be used concurrently with ephedrine and caffeine or any other fat loss supplements. Either use one or the other.
Doing so could result in very serious adverse effects.
thank you Cy, i’m taking your advice. i do see how it is a good idea to take one fat loss supplement at a time, and also that prolonged exposure to any particular supplement can be ineffective and/or dangerous.
it sounds to me like cycling ECA and HOT-ROX is a solid plan. does anybody have any suggestions on how long one should be on each? and is there a third fat loss option that is relatively effective, safe, and not overpriced?
[/quote]
I know nothing of cycling HOT-ROX but there is at least one study that shows extended use of EC only gets better, so no need to cycle off.
A third option? Consistency to a reduced cal diet. Nicotine works well for me and has been shown to work well in studies. Phentermine has worked for some but you’ll need a prescription. DNP but most people are too stupid to use it properly (again, this goes back to the MORE IS BETTER!!! mentality).
[quote]K-Narf wrote:
dvv wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Are actual pre-formulated ECA stacks being sold again?
I’ve seen a few on various websites, however they are very expensive and use a small dose of ephedra (I believe 10mg or so)…
Personally, I think your better off just getting some Ephedrine Hcl, and making your own E/C stack, its done wonders for me for preworkout and best of all its very cost effective
Agreed. I found this to be the best way to go.
[/quote]
Interesting. I might look into that. I’ve never used Ephedrine. I’d be interested in a personal test of how it compares to HOT-ROX