T Nation



I've been leaning down for the last few weeks and I originally bought a fat burner with ephedra mu haung in it, caffine, and willow bark, it's called Ephburn 25. We all know about ephedra and it's fat burning properties. The guy I bought it with suggested I cycle it on and off 2 weeks on 2 off and so forth.. I bought some HOT-ROX for my time off of the ephedra.

It's been 3 days on HOT-ROX and all I can say is I'm not going back on the ephedra fat burner!!!! Believe that!! In the last 3 days my fat has melted off faster than when on the ephedra product! I'm tripping out about it because I have no idea wtf ae-7 is but damn this stuff is POWERFUL! I might have to get off the HOT-ROX sooner than later because honestly my bodyfat is coming off TOO QUICK!


(Also doing morning cardio, and carb cycling.)


Glad you like.


yes, ephedra sucks.

that's why people use ephedrine.


Bill, any thoughts on combining Eph and HRX?
I tried it once but got far too stimulated for my liking. I have both lying around and fancy trying it again now I'm more tolerant of stims..


I haven't tried the combination and if anyone at Biotest has, I'm not aware of it.

My expectation would be that if someone is tolerant of ephedrine, it would be perfectly doable but I wouldn't be surprised if -- contrary to when ephedrine is being compared to using nothing -- nothing further was accomplished by adding the ephedrine.

My reason for thinking that likely is that I have tried combining clenbuterol with HRX, and clenbuterol is more effective than ephedrine. But clenbuterol added nothing, that I could tell, to what HOT-ROX alone did.

The reason perhaps is that the beta adrenergic agonists (for example ephedrine and clenbuterol) work by increasing cAMP levels. HOT-ROX already does this.




MDMA is the truth. Please lets not get things confused here.


Why do you bring up an illegal substance that has nothing to do with HOT-ROX?


you're the truth.


So you're saying you can't handle the truth?


Cheers Bill, great answer.
Does this mean that cAMP levels look like an exponential curve as it elevates, in that levels will almost plateau eventually?


Don't really understand why you are laughing. Ephredra= hebral form of the drug, and frequently has other alkaloids in it, which causes some people a shitload of weird effects. Ephedrine= the isolated pure form of ephedra.


Probably so as most things are that way.

The more helpful situation is when an added agent works in a completely different way, increasing a thing not increased by what is already being used, but that's not the case here.


Yeah, it makes sense. Thanks Bill.
If you don't mind me picking your brain, what alternate pathways would you choose for fat loss in combination with the increased cAMP from HRX? Elevated DA?


T3, T2, GH, however the androgen receptor does it, whatever is accomplished with reduced estrogen if it is above low-normal, and whatever mechanisms some phytonutrients exploit. PPAR-gamma might help though adding sesame lignans to HRX did nothing that I noticed, though I'm giving it another try.


Bump to see post.


It's setting me free!


When Bill posts just smile, nod your head and act like you know what the hell he's talking about!!


Some interesting stuff there, cheers. I've got a handful of T2 left over that I pop occasionally, but I think I'll be purchasing some more from that recommendation. I just did a little pubmedding, and it seems it shuts the thyroid down to a large degree [though not as much as T3]. Any word keeping it elevated - or at least decreasing the time it takes for levels to normalise after cessation?


No, it doesn't shut down thyroid production. At least with the isomer (3,5) that ought to be used.

What references do you have that seem to indicate otherwise?

In evaluating its safety for Biotest, I've personally taken it at 300 mcg (!) 2x/day and thyroid panels showed absolutely no adverse effect eithe acutely or after chronic use (six weeks.) Not that I recommend that dose for others: it is more than needed -- I just like establishing that at least some people can tolerate a dose much higher than recommended and finding that true for myself accomplishes that, though of course it doesn't reveal what percentage of people might be able to tolerate that multiple of the recommended dose. It might be a small percent.

I also haven't seen a study showing the 3,5 isomer to have a suppression problem.