T Nation

HOT-ROX Extreme and Muscle Loss...


#1

Hey guys,

I've been slowly dropping BF while on a Nate Miyaki (moderate carb intake) nutrition plan. Since I can't currently afford I-3G (when it comes out) I've been thinking of trying HOT-ROX to drop the last few pounds.

My question is to guys who have used it; did you notice it to be a challenge to maintain muscle mass while on it. I ask because I know some fat loss supplements can tend to also strip some muscle depending on your physiology.

The supplements I will be using with it are Flameout, FA3, and ElitePro Mineral(to replace ZMA), and Metabolic Drive Low Carb (2 scoops a day).

On training days I will be adding 1 FINiBAR and peri-workout w/ 1 scoop each Anaconda, MAG-10, SWF.

As I said, I've been dropping weight so I don't think I need to decrease calories any more, just want a boost so i can see my abs. Given my supplement protcol and nutriton (3 meals a day, 50g protein, 50g carbs, Fat from supps and natural sources) does anyone think I will have trouble keeping my current muscle?

Since someone will ask, I am currently doing Thibs HP Mass program but may switch to his complex style training for the increased calorie burn.

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers.


#2

My other consideration was going onto Beta-7 and seeing what that's like. I know it's not the same thing but it may not cause muscle loss and the increased work capacity will burn more fat.


#3

It's a tool to help you loose fat and maintains muscle, not a magic bullet.

Try it and let us know.

But for the love of everything, please tell me you are not scrawny.


#4

I'm 5'8" about 165lbs. Gained some mass over the holidays but way too much fat. Tired of being soft. I'd rather get lean and gain mass slower while staying lean then have to cut fat every spring.

Most of my muscle mass is in my back and legs. Shoulders and arms are my weak points.

i'm not huge by any means but would say I'm scrawny.

Long term goals;

185lbs under 10% BF

I prefer to look athletic, lean and muscular over gigantic. Not knocking anyones goals, those are just mine.

The reason I ask about the HOT-ROX is it's hard for me to gain mass so i don't want to lose it just getting lean.


#5

HOT-ROX will help you hold onto the muscle mass and accelerate fat loss.
If everything is lined up in your cut, then it is good to add in for a time period.
I like using HOT-ROX for 4 weeks, stop use for a few weeks, then start again if necessary.


#6

HOT-ROX will definitely give you a "boost" but wont just shred you up... has fat loss slowed or stalled?

i would say add in morning cardio and if you still want the boost grab some HOT-ROX too


#7

I've thought about adding in some AM skipping/Shadow boxing. I was doing Waterbury's PLP program but had to stop because I almost never had 6hrs from doing that to when I trained and found it was beginning to hinder performance.

I wouldn't say fat loss has stalled. Maybe slowed a bit. Beta-7 was the other option to pump up my work capacity as it seems to be the thing slowing down progress the most, especially doing HP mass, and I think the complexes would kill me. I'm strong (relative) but have very little muscular endurance; I've never had great tolerance for lactic burn, which is why low rep training has always worked for me and I've never really done cardio.


#8

Also, i understand it's not magic. My eating is in line, I just want to give fat loss a boost so I can finally start focusing on gaining lean mass (while staying lean).


#9

morning cardio - fsated or w/ whey or bcaa's - should help with the fat loss and lean gaining


#10

x 2

when i was at my leanest I was doing FMC 4-5 days a week. I saw great results from it.

I like to use HOT-ROX more for the "boost" rather than the fat loss effects. I like to take one when I'm feeling sluggish (coffee/redbull doesnt do it for me)


#11

Guess I may have to look at the fasted cardio. Seems to be the more popular opinion.

I've heard varying opinion on fasted cardio though as far as intensity. What have you guys found that worked better; intense (skipping) or brisk walking?


#12

HOT-ROX + fasted cardio is great. For me it's mainly good because of the boost it gives you, someone else mentioned that earlier.

I've read that the effects of Yohimbine are blunted in a fed state, so there isn't much point in taking it unless you are going to be doing fasted cardio in my opinion.


#13

no higher than 130 BPM if fasted...


#14

I got away with quite a bit when I used HOT-ROX and I used to get fat just looking at carbs, even now, I can't have more than 100/200g on off and training days respectively.

Don't worry about the walking, just do it. The effects come more from getting moving first thing while you are in a fasted state. I walk to Starbucks for coffee, its around 3 miles round trip and there is a hill, this is more than enough, if you really want to give'r, just walk a little longer, there is no need to push the intensity. As long as the food you eat is quality, you will be fine.

Any decrease in performance is to be expected on a fat loss diet, particularly if you are trying to do the PLP. If you want to do PLP, an extra meal may be needed, same parameters. I would not do complexes on a cut, save it for your rebound when consuming maintenance or higher.

If you are seeing results, stick with what works. What seems to be muscle loss might be glycogen depletion, either way, with quality food and workout nutrition you should be able to minimize this so don't worry. Also, when you are done with the cut, you can take advantage of the improved insulin sensitivity and gain quite a bit of muscle during the rebound. If you can afford a scoop of Mag10, then hit it, otherwise BCAAs or leucine, but you would likely be fine without as long as you don't overdo it. Then when you can get Indigo, it will be that much more effective.


#15

I don't think I'm losing much muscle. the carb intake I was put on was about 150/200-225 non-training/training days. So I don't think my glycogen levels are getting very low. I am still in a deficit as I've lost about 6-8 lbs in the past 6 weeks, with no loss in strength.

I will try the AM fasted walking without the BCAA's, as my breakfast includes 50g of carbs, which will hopefully stop any catabolism (or at least minimize it). I will also try to increase the volume of sled work I'm doing in the HP Mass. I know it's not a weight loss program but it's a lot of volume and the training type should help me maintain strength (and possibly increase muscle once I get my A/M-10/SWF - using S. Recovery right now).

I'll definitely take into consideration saving the complexes for when I start to gain again.

As far as the PLP goes Waterbury recommeneds a minimum of 6 hrs between that and your normal training session which was rarely happenng, sometimes only 3 hrs which isn't enough, so I had to stop.

I may stll try the HOT-ROX to hit the lower back fat (stubborn stuff), or wait until the holiddays when I can get some Indigo. Plan on saving for awhile and putting any gift cash towards it aswell.

Thanks for all the help guys, much appreciated.


#16

Note; I said in the original post about the peri-workout because when (if) I order the HOT-ROX I will also be ordering everything else so I will be on them at the same time.


#17

You may want to consider Receptormax as your description seems to be insulin related storage, or John Meadows' glucose dispersal agent. Also if this is your trouble spot, I question if the diet you are following is low carb enough to get that last bit of fat there, check out this article and think about it as objectively as you can:

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/one_hundred_gram_carb_cure&cr=

It may be that your diet works well for fat loss in general, but is not quite enough for that last bit, really this is something that varies between individuals. I am not saying for sure this is the case for you, but your description does lend credence to this theory.

EDIT:

I reread your original post, you say you are on a Nate Miyaki plan, if you mean you actually got him to make you a plan, then ignore this carb recommendation, the supps though are still the same.


#18

Can HOT-ROX and Receptormax be used together?


#19

i dont see why not


#20

Yes, Nate Miyaki very kindly tweaked my plan for me and i am following it as closely as possible. If I do have a cheat meal I follow it with a BCAA fast the following day with a meal after about 7-8pm. So that is why I don't really want to modify my actual meal plan too much, and instead add additional training or supps to finish it off.

I had thought about Receptor Max but at close to $100 a month I would probably have to drop some other supplements at this point as my current finances wouldn't allow me to have them all.