[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Apparently making nothing beats whatever Hostess was offering.
More Democratic arithmetic. [/quote]
Not if you get a job that pays better, obviously.[/quote]
You missed it, you really missed it.
[/quote]
In what way?
Good riddance Twinkie…one less treat that had 17 different kinds of Sugars in it’s ingredients.
I think Hostess’ problem was more related to bad management rather than excessive union interjection. Specifically, the WSJ article mentions how “the company gobbled competitors,” which means they likely made enough bad M&A decisions (unproductive assets that they overestimated compatibility with or negative NPV diversification) to lose their ability to operate as a going concern. Well, that coupled with the fact that they went into Chapter 11 before, in 2009 and came out over-leveraged. I did my thesis around bankruptcy and I can tell you very few firms come out reorganised in a “Chapter 22” or even less likely, “Chapter 33.” If new management usually brought in from the first (or second) reorganisation can’t productively use the firms downsized (usually core) assets then the most efficient form of organisation is liquidation (or large asset sales).
Usually the presence of a private equity investor allows for better negotiations with unions (see the Allied Holdings case) and judging from the information in the WSJ article it looks like there was some kind of union compromise in recent years.
Seems like these “Twinkies” just lost popularity. I don’t think the US suffered any welfare loss (besides the temporary unemployment) from Hostess’ dissolution.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]groo wrote:
Yah clearly the unions fault. Lets see if anyone that thinks this, one knows how many ceos hostess has had in the last 7 years. How many of these had any relevant eperience. If said ceos took increased compensation while unilatterally breaking a contract. Bonusoints if they know if this is the first time hostess has declared bankruptcy.
Terribly managed company going out of business. Free market at work.[/quote]
I’m sure the Union knew this…why demand things that they knew would shut it down?
It’s ALL BUSH’S FAULT DAMMIT!![/quote]
Who is John Galt?
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]groo wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Apparently making nothing beats whatever Hostess was offering.
More Democratic arithmetic. [/quote]
This is a strawman but Ill play. If my company told everyone they would take a 30 percent pay and benefit cut or they were going to shut down. I do think they should shut down. I would get another job. If I told any individual working for me they were taking za30percent pay cut or we were done I would expect them to quit.
Companies whose sole mission in regards to labor is to minimize the cost are not necessarily good for the evomy.
[/quote]
Just to give you an idea of how bad this can get, take a look at what happened here.
Look who left my state for greener pastures…
Abraxis Health
Adobr Systems
Alza Corp.
American AVK
American Racing
Apple Computer
Audix Corporation
Apria Healthcare Group
Assurant Inc.
Barefoot Motors
Bazz Houston Co.
Beckman Coulter
Bild Industries Inc.,
Bill Miller Engineering
BMC Select
BPI Labs
Buck Knives
CalPortland Cement
California Casualty Group
CalStar Products Inc
Checks To-Go
Chivaroli & Associates CoreSite
A Carlyle Company
Creel Printing
Dassault Falcon
DaVita Inc.
Dennyâ??s Corp
Digital Domain
Ditech DuPont
Fabros Technology
Ebay
EDMO Distributors Inc
Edwards Lifesciences
Electronic Arts, Inc
EMRISE Corp
Facebook FallLine Corporation
Fidelity National Financial
First American Corp
Fluor Corp
Foxconn Electronics
Fuel System Solutions
Gregg Industries
Hewlett-Packard
Hilton Hotels Corp
Hino Motor Manufacturing USA
Intel Corporation
Intuit of Mountain View
J.C. Penney
Kimmie Candy Co.
Klaussner Home Furnishings
Knight Protective Industries
Kulicke & Soffa Industries Inc.
LCF Enterprises
Lennox Hearth Products Inc.
Lyn-Tron Inc.
Mariah Power
Maxwell America
Miasol�©
MotorVac Technologies
Nissan North America
Northrop Grumman
One2Believe
Patmont Motor Werks Inc.
Paragon Relocation Resources
Pixel Magic
Plastic Model Engineering Inc.
Precor
Premier Inc.,
Pro Cal of South Gate
Race Track Chaplaincy of Amer.
Red Truck Fire & Safety Co. SAIC
Scale Computing,
Schott Solar Inc.
SimpleTech Smiley Industries
Solaicx
SolarWorld
Special Devices Inc.
StarKist
Stasis Engineering
Stata Corp.
Tapmatic Teledesic
Telmar Network Technology Inc,
Terremark
Terumo Cardiovascular Systems
Toyota
True Games Interactive Inc.
TTM Technologies
US Press shifted
USAA Insurance
Yahoo
The moral of the story, best you keep the environment ripe, or companies go elsewhere. [/quote]
The Great Collapse of the 21st Century is on the way.
[quote]groo wrote:
Yah clearly the unions fault. Lets see if anyone that thinks this, one knows how many ceos hostess has had in the last 7 years. How many of these had any relevant eperience. If said ceos took increased compensation while unilatterally breaking a contract. Bonusoints if they know if this is the first time hostess has declared bankruptcy.
Terribly managed company going out of business. Free market at work.[/quote]
I would think it to be a terribly hard company too manage when your are forced by employee union contracts to do one stupid and detrimental thing after another. Example…Did you know that the union contract forbade wonder bread to be carried on the same truck as snack cakes (and vice versa) forcing to company to run two trucks and two drives, double gas, insurance and everything else just to deliver product to the same store. Only a union or a socialist country could come up with this happy horse shit.
[quote]Karado wrote:
Good riddance Twinkie…one less treat that had 17 different kinds of Sugars in it’s ingredients.[/quote]
I hate to see one more company close its doors. But on the other hand they did make consumable crap.
[quote]JEATON wrote:
I would think it to be a terribly hard company too manage when your are forced by employee union contracts to do one stupid and detrimental thing after another. Example…Did you know that the union contract forbade wonder bread to be carried on the same truck as snack cakes (and vice versa) forcing to company to run two trucks and two drives, double gas, insurance and everything else just to deliver product to the same store. Only a union or a socialist country could come up with this happy horse shit. [/quote]
That’s definitely crazy. There’s plenty of companies that have to work within the confines of a union environment that are extremely profitable though. BMW - in Germany, not here - and UPS as the two best examples I can think of. The company that I work for is union and we turned a pretty decent profit too.
It comes down to good management and relationship management. Good management would find a way that the above scenario would work. Strong leadership would forge a better relationship between the unions to keep stupid rules like that from happening.
I’m not pro-union by any stretch but I do think that in some cases they get the blame when really the problem is poor leadership. Poor leadership and an uppity union is a recipe for disaster.
james
I put myself through college working as an iron worker in the late eighties and early nineties. A lot of jobs were mixed in that some trades were union and some none. It always seemed that the union crews were the most worthless SOB’s in the site. Often we would physically force them from a pour, do their work and ours because it was faster that way.
I ran trade shows for a few years out of college. Hated going to the northeast. Teamsters, etc were just awful to work with. I know that my experience is still limited and it is not always like this, but I do not think I could ever work for a union.
LOL, I hear Ebay has Boxes of Twinkies/Ho Ho’s at outrageous prices, 100’s of Dollars.
Today a Chicago Newspaper sez other National Bakeries are interested in taking the reins,
obtaining the identical recipes for Hostess’s stuff and continuing making these sure sellers.
It’s gonna be a win-win for the companies involved, at the cost of the Hostess Employees’ Jobs.
But Consumers don’t give a shit Hostess Employees Jobs, They just want their fuckin’ Twinkies,
even if they rename it.
[quote]Karado wrote:
LOL, I hear Ebay has Boxes of Twinkies/Ho Ho’s at outrageous prices, 100’s of Dollars.
Today a Chicago Newspaper sez other National Bakeries are interested in taking the reins,
obtaining the identical recipes for Hostess’s stuff and continuing making these sure sellers.
It’s gonna be a win-win for the companies involved, at the cost of the Hostess Employees’ Jobs.
But Consumers don’t give a shit Hostess Employees Jobs, They just want their fuckin’ Twinkies,
even if they rename it.[/quote]
There will be other stories like this after the full effects of Obamacare kick in. In addition to this if obama gets his way and raises taxes on job creators this type of mass carnage will happen on a regular basis.
This is the new America…obama’s dream is coming true.
[quote]JEATON wrote:
[quote]groo wrote:
Yah clearly the unions fault. Lets see if anyone that thinks this, one knows how many ceos hostess has had in the last 7 years. How many of these had any relevant eperience. If said ceos took increased compensation while unilatterally breaking a contract. Bonusoints if they know if this is the first time hostess has declared bankruptcy.
Terribly managed company going out of business. Free market at work.[/quote]
I would think it to be a terribly hard company too manage when your are forced by employee union contracts to do one stupid and detrimental thing after another. Example…Did you know that the union contract forbade wonder bread to be carried on the same truck as snack cakes (and vice versa) forcing to company to run two trucks and two drives, double gas, insurance and everything else just to deliver product to the same store. Only a union or a socialist country could come up with this happy horse shit. [/quote]
JEATON -
Can you please source these details fromt he Hostess contract?
thx
FUCKIN’ UNIONS MAN!..We needed them because of certain workplace abuses in the past,
but they are not what they were years ago…we gave them an inch and they took a foot,
more than a foot lol.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]JEATON wrote:
[quote]groo wrote:
Yah clearly the unions fault. Lets see if anyone that thinks this, one knows how many ceos hostess has had in the last 7 years. How many of these had any relevant eperience. If said ceos took increased compensation while unilatterally breaking a contract. Bonusoints if they know if this is the first time hostess has declared bankruptcy.
Terribly managed company going out of business. Free market at work.[/quote]
I would think it to be a terribly hard company too manage when your are forced by employee union contracts to do one stupid and detrimental thing after another. Example…Did you know that the union contract forbade wonder bread to be carried on the same truck as snack cakes (and vice versa) forcing to company to run two trucks and two drives, double gas, insurance and everything else just to deliver product to the same store. Only a union or a socialist country could come up with this happy horse shit. [/quote]
JEATON -
Can you please source these details fromt he Hostess contract?
thx
[/quote]
I got it from Will Cain on “Real News on the Blaze TV” Sorry that I cannot source it on print as of yet. If I run across it latter I will.
Actually business guru Roger Martin notes that the problem with companies like Hostess is that executive compensation is tied to stock performance. When a CEO’s attention is turned to his own stocks quarterly earnings and not on long term strategic planning then the CEO’s values have precedent over the company’s. Companies produce real goods and earn a real profit while there are investors in the expectations game looking at what the company is doing and estimating the value of the company through stock pricing.
By giving a CEO stock options you put their focus on the stock price (expectations market) and ignore the real market of producing valuable goods to the market. The CEO loses his focus on long term projections for the company and where areas of growth can be and where areas of expansion can be.
[quote]Karado wrote:
FUCKIN’ UNIONS MAN!..We needed them because of certain workplace abuses in the past,
but they are not what they were years ago…we gave them an inch and they took a foot,
more than a foot lol.[/quote]
Unions are almost as abusive now as big business was before unions entered the picture. We now need something to offset the unions.
Some one that thinks unions are evil evidently do not work for some one else, Wages are low , Companies expect to buy your soul for squat for wages . Unions are in serious need .
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Some one that thinks unions are evil evidently do not work for some one else, Wages are low , Companies expect to buy your soul for squat for wages . Unions are in serious need . [/quote]
I worked for a government entity where the union decided they would start taking money out of my paycheck by force of law because my salary was ‘negotiated’ as part of ‘collective bargaining’. They wouldn’t let me renegotiate my salary as an individual (because the union lobbied for laws that outlawed that).
So I left and negotiated a salary in the private sector.
I started out at twice the salary for similar work and better benefits.
So, agreed-- the union did me a huge favor. They are in serious need-- of going away, especially in the public sector.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Some one that thinks unions are evil evidently do not work for some one else, Wages are low , Companies expect to buy your soul for squat for wages . Unions are in serious need . [/quote]
I worked for a government entity where the union decided they would start taking money out of my paycheck by force of law because my salary was ‘negotiated’ as part of ‘collective bargaining’. They wouldn’t let me renegotiate my salary as an individual (because the union lobbied for laws that outlawed that).
So I left and negotiated a salary in the private sector.
I started out at twice the salary for similar work and better benefits.
So, agreed-- the union did me a huge favor. They are in serious need-- of going away, especially in the public sector.[/quote]
What the union did was take away your right as a private citizen to negotiate your own deal. It reminds me of socialism. No wonder Obama loves unions.
As a side note, has anyone dissected the deal that the GM auto workers union got when the government bailed them out with our tax dollars.
It was quite corrupt.
Unions want their cut, nothing else.
They could care less about their members dropping dead, other than them not getting the dues from that corpse.
California Teachers Union refused $40 Million in Federal Grants because they did not want the teachers to be held to a standard of performance. Imagine giving up $40 Million so you can safely remain a deadbeat teacher.