T Nation

Hormonal manipulation

I can’t go into specifics as to ‘why’ I’m asking this question, but I can assure you that your feedback is very important. It could honestly save some lives. Again, it’s too personal to give the scenario. I’m just begging for the science.

Suppose you were living with a large, muscled, trained person who was showing more and more symptoms of violence (in that, people are afraid he’s going to wig out on someone). What effect would feeding him some of your girl-friend’s birth control pills? The main goal here would be to weaken him or reduce his aggression. Which week’s worth of pills would you recommend?

How about some soy protein to kill off that “excess” of T? I’d think it’d be a safer alternative than birth control pills - and certainly less costly.

Raising estrogen isn’t the same as dropping T so I don’t think the BC pills are a good idea. Besides, he might get really violent when he finds out his new case of gynomastia is due to the stuff you’ve been slipping him. If he’s juicing and on anti E’s not much will really happen. Maybe having a talk with him, preferably on the phone so you won’t get injured, might be a start.

El Mac, that’s a tough one. At the outset, I would say this guy needs some help; but if the people around him are fearful for their own lives, then I would say they need to get out… now. But that’s not what you asked.

Sounds as if there are some definite hormonal imbalances going on, but it might not be fair to assume it’s an excess of testosterone. It very well could be a lack of serotonin production. There are supplements that should help with that (as would anti-depressant/anxiety drugs), like 5-HTP, melatonin, L-Tryptophan, etc. I have no idea about the pill, other than I thought the last four or so that women take when they’re menstruating are sugar pills (just to keep them used to taking them daily). But I could be waaay off on that.

I assume you’re asking about these pills because it’s intended for this guy to take something without his knowledge, right? If so, there’s always the risk that whoever is administering these might get caught. That could make a bad situation worse. Anyway, sorry, I don’t mean to preach. I wish I knew more science behind these things than I do, but you might want to run some online searches on what the causes of excessive aggression are, then search for a way to curb it from there. You’ve probably already done that, but thought I’d suggest it anyway. And one last random thought, some pot brownies might take that edge off, but the high would probably be noticeable to him.

Tyler

This makes me think of a kid I used to train who was constantly getting sinus infections. He would take his medicine, get better then his lifts would go down the toilet. This happened over and over until he was lifting less than when he started training in the first place. Finally he found out the doctor was giving him I think a corticosteroid, whatever it was it was the exact opposite of an anabolic steroid, his doctor was completely unaware the medicine was ruining his lifting!

This sounds more like a chemical imbalance rather than a hormonal imbalance. Of course, I'm not a doctor and could be talking out of my ass for all I know.

My cousin married a man who was so nice and good to her. However, over a two-year period, he became increasingly violent, so much so that she divorced him because he started abusing her. He didn't drink or do drugs and they both led a healthy lifestyle. He was later diagnosed as paranoid-schizophrenic. He did not exhibit the more common signs such as hallucinations, out-to-get-me mentality, confusion, changes in weight, changes in sleeping and eating habits, or delusions. The increasing anger, attitude of indifference, and nervousness were more prevalent.


Anyways, not to say that this person has this condition, but a chemical imbalance should be considered.

Thanks, everyone, for taking the time to post.

It definitaly is partially a chemical imbalance. The guy went crazy from drinking too much water (that’s what makes this so sad) and is now living where I live. Unfortunately, if he’s kicked out, then he will very likely die on the street. He’s willing to live on the strett, and he knows the life, but we know that it usually ends badly

The people who love him want him near, so that they don’t lose him. I’m living there as “protection” for them. He’s only been violent against material objects, and always in a temper-tantrum way. Unfortunately, he does seem very rational, it’s just that he loses him temper.

The craziest part is that he’s an avid trainer and martial-artist. I’m the only “protection” these people have if the scenario turns bad, and I really doubt my ability to subdue him. Hence the estrogen.

Hey, my idea isn’t too bad. My other friends (who know a bit more about the scenario, obviously) have suggested putting ground glass in his food. Just enough to give him internal bleeding. Obviously, I can’t really do that.

The other people think that he’ll “turn around” some day. I don’t. I’m just trying to think about a way of being pro-active in our defense without resorting to illegal means.

The guy is obviously mentally unbalanced if not mentally ill…which makes him totally unpredictable and therefor dangerous…especially since you probably never know what will set him off and when he will “lose his temper”…he needs professional help and medication…because he will get worse until somebody gets hurt because he “lost his temper” and then they can deal with him in jail where he will fit in.

Is this person aware of their behavior? Is counselling an option? I would rather start down that track instead of possibly adding to the problem with chemicals etc.

Get him diagnosed. You shouldn’t be living somewhere to offer anyone protection from someone else. What I’m saying is that these people shouldn’t be living in fear. If the choices they’ve offered him are “stay and play nice” or leave then he’s gotta go. No amount of love will keep me living with someone who frightens me. Forgive me but this is hogwash! Better said bullshit!

Crime after crime demonstrates that it is not strangers who committ the most violent crimes but acquaintances. Why does this family allow this? Is it really love or fear that this guy will make a bad decision and decide to live on the streets? Hell, it’s his choice. Let him go! They’re under no obligation to put there lives in fear simply to keep him alive especially if he’s the cause of their fear.

Forget hormone manipulation this guy needs a good psychiatrist, a swift kick out the door or anything else besides what’s going on now. Croooz

Did he get permanent brain damage from overhydration? That’s odd, as it seems that usually people just die, rather than ‘only’ getting brain damage. If he acknowledges that this is a problem, you might want to refer him to a psychiatrist… it’s probably only slightly more expensive than birth control pills in the quantity you’d need.

Whoa. From drinking too much water??? Can you elaborate on that? I have heard that overdoing it on water can kill you becaue of electrolyte imbalance (which, of course, is the worst case scenario), but never causing permanent damage…? Does this guy know he has a problem? If so, why not get it treated? There’s got to be plenty of things out there that would help with uncontrollable rage. And as a last resort, having him committed would be a much better way to go than letting him die on the streets, I would think.

I have a friend that is just like this. When I first met him and started kickin’ it with him I was always a little worried that he might go off in public, but after a while I became less and less worried. The only thing that you can really do for him is be his friend. If he knows that he can trust you then he will not hurt you. Don’t worry about drugs or anything just be his friend. Hope everything gets better for you.

sounds like dude needs to get laid.jmho

Gabapentin. Does wonders.

Um, estrogens would be an extremely BAD idea. Adding estrogens to a male body could very easily INCREASE his mental instability, and I really doubt it would weaken him enough to make a difference. It’s not some magic formula…in fact, it could actually raise his testosterone as his body compensates for the raised estrogens, and his mass could well increase.

As for soy proteins…I’m not sure how you could force-feed a guy so much soy to lower his excess T that much, and if a little soy could weaken people so much, Mike Mahler would hardly be tossing around 88lb. cannonballs!

Assuming that you can't get this guy some help, some actual sedatives or muscle relaxants would help you a hell of a lot better than birth control pills, and they'd act faster, too -- even if the estrogen would make him weak and docile (which I would strongly suspect it would NOT), it would take months to have a significant effect.

The answer to your originial question about which week to give is:

Depends on the type of pill. If it is a tri-phasic pill, you will want to choose the last week before the placebos. These have the highest estrogen content. Btw, the placebos are the ones that are a different color. If the pills are mono-phasic, then it doesn’t matter which week you use since they all have the same estrogen content.

After 5 years of paying for various gf’s pills, I now know more than I’d like about those things.

I will say that it seems like you are playing with fire if you start slipping this guy estrogen. But if it works, stay away from him for the first 3 hours after taking it or you are likely to be a shoulder to cry on when the estrogen hits his system ; ) Every girl I dated that took the pill would get overly mushy, emotional, require massive amounts of affection and cry at the drop of a dime starting about 1 hour after taking the pill on an empty stomach. I doubt this would happen in a male, but it sure would be wild to see a raging bull turn into a crying puddle asking for someone to love him!

 Dude, dont! If my memory serves me right birth control pills have testosterone and similar chemicals in them. Thatll only feed the fire!