Maybe ask him also.
I did it because I thought I’d get better faster.
Edit: actually I did it as well because a few of my friends and a few guys on the internet always said “overtraining doesn’t exist” and since I wanted to be tougher than them, I went harder and more often than anyone else with nothing to show for but a severe state of mental and physical fatigue.
This is not my experience at all and I’ve been at it way longer. But even so, you can bench every day no problem. Are they working out 4 hours + a day like it’s their job? Serious question. If not, they’re not over training.
I don’t need to. He claims to overtrain but he hasn’t. An overtrained body is one that has generally been developed far past his stats. The detriment comes later.
This is just plain false. It IS BETTER up to a point people rarely reach.
Please note I did NOT say it doesn’t exist. I just said it’s rare amongst hobbyists and generally only falls into elite / career athletes.
I thought about this a bit, and if I think I could bench everyday. I think I could, but I’d have to get creative to not burn out, and to keep my joints healthy. I’d have to vary reps, sets, rpe, as well as use things like boards, swiss bar, narrow grip, sling shot, etc for my shoulders.
I’d say if I just tried to progress on one bench movement only, I don’t think I’d last very long.
I think I push pretty hard though. I’ve done blocks of 10x10 bench, and 5x10 narrow grip. My pecs cramped several times during that block.
Proper training load is a controversial and interesting topic. Over the years, I’ve learned a lot about it.
The body can adapt to great stress, if it is allowed to adapt slowly. Training must be directed towards specific goals, of course dependent on the particular sport involved. If you want to be good at heavy singles in certain lifts (weightlifting, snatch and clean & jerk), you train heavy snatches and C&Js. Certain lifts can be trained more frequently than others, limit snatches vs limit dead lifts, for example.
Reaching elite levels without performance enhancing drugs is almost impossible. I’ve had some interesting conversations with some Europeans (“you cannot train without restoratives”) and Chinese coaches (“Chinese medicine” smile and nod).
I found myself sitting next to Alexander Medvedev (USSR, world champion and later national coach) at a world championships. This was after he retired. I wish I spoke Russian, or he better English. He did impress upon me he was a Professor of Sport and taught at the university. The Russians have studied overtraining extensively. They used regular blood tests, though I couldn’t get out of him exactly what they tested. Also, daily, or more, blood pressure checks. BP checked first thing in the am, ideally before getting up. A 15% increase from the day prior meant a light day was in order due to lack of recovery.
I think blshaw had a good point, most have no idea what it is like to really push themselves. Even some elite lifters. I saw a guy absolutely smoke a 300kg x 5 back squat, could not have done them faster. He was probably faster than I was with 200kg. Racked the bar, “those were really heavy. I think I’m through.” I would have bet on 350x5. Over the years, I’ve often seen someone make that last rep easily, only to declared they don’t have another one in them, or another set.
As an aside, I have obtained blood work from some elite weightlifters (not from US, I can’t name names so systemlord will have to remain skeptical) and was shocked to see some pretty low testosterone levels, in the 300s. These guys were not using any androgen suppressing PEDs. I guess what they were using offset the low test. It is known that overtraining can suppress hormones, but seeing these levels in guys lifting what they did was hard to believe.
You can overtrain with 1 hour training per day. Overtraining is CNS exhaustion. If you train a big lift every day to failure, you will overtrain. There’s only a tiny tiny minority of people who can handle this. I know none of them. I’ve been in the gym 11 years and not once have I met a person that can train like a maniac every day. It’s definitely not because they did not want to. No professional powerlifter trains heavy every day.
May your definition of overtraining be wrong?
Because I can’t see how someone can still believe this garbage notion that there’s no such thing as too much training. Clearly there’s a too much and it’s not 4 hours per day. It may 5 be days a week for 1-2 hours depending on what you do.
Clearly you can also overtrain with moderate weights and too much volume.
It depends on what the CNS of the individual is able to handle.
Many professional athletes have suboptimal testosterone because of their training and diet regimen. I don’t think this is surprising.
I thought exactly the same, that OTS is nearly a mith, but after what ive been dealing with i think I change my point of view.
In my case i surpased my límits on diet & recovery, what caused a CNS exhaustion.
OTS or not, what its 100% sure, Its that i made mistakes that i regret, and im dealing to recover a good quality of Life.
Thank you all, i’d tried to send my BT to balance your hormones but i cant upload It (I dont know what).
Right, it is not. I’m not speaking of them. What was surprising, to me anyway, was weightlifters who C&J over 225kg, full squat 350+kg, with total testosterone in the low 300s.
I think they measured Urea in the blood stream.
I think you and @blshaw may not be on the same wave length but are essentially playing the same tune. Shaw never said that overtraining isn’t a thing, just that it rarely happens to the average gym goer.
I personally think that many confuse overtraining with under recovering i.e. they aren’t getting the proper nutrition and rest to continue making progress in the gym and have to back off the intensity or volume to keep making progress. This doesn’t mean their CNS is getting fried - it just that they don’t know how to optimally take advantage of the stress/recovery/adaptation process. As for elites overtraining - I think they are the last people to overtrain although they do train 2 or more times per day simply because they know what works for them and what doesn’t. Also, being elite, your entire purpose in life is to train - eat - sleep - repeat.
The average Joe at your local gym keeps doing the wrong training program, eating the wrong shit, doesn’t get enough rest and is basically spinning his wheels for years and calls it overtraining. Whoever thinks benching 7 days a week will result in more weight on the bar and a bigger chest hasn’t researched the stress adaptation cycle. Sure, you could bench everyday. But with submaximal loads that would produce no adaptation. Granted you would probably have a sore chest every day. Some people consider being sore and sweaty to be progress, so there’s that.
Exactly sir. I think @lordgains and I are just debating over the threshold of overtraining versus the existence. I respect his opinion as I’m sure he does mine. I think I’ve stated my views throughly so have nothing more to add.
Some call it under recovering. The only difference is that when you are under recovering it would theoretically with your biological make-up be possible to recover from the training you are doing, you are doing something wrong. Everything else is equal, meaning same symptoms, same bio markers.
Under recovering is overtraining. That’s why one overtrains faster in a caloric deficit (i.e. OP).
Overtraining has much in common with a burnout syndrome. It apparently also has in common with it that some people don’t believe in it because they’ve never pushed themselves to the edge. Good for them.
My subjective definition of:
overtraining - getting the proper amount of nutrition and rest but overworking your body so much that you fry your nervous system rendering you nearly disabled for a week or two.
Under recovering - being in an (un)intentional calorie deficit and/or not getting enough rest to make consistent progress in the weight room. i.e. doing the same exercises, lifting the same amount of weight for months on end, feeling tired and shitty but not necessarily crippled as those in the overtrained group that fry their CNS.
This mostly boils down to one group being too ambitious with their training goals while the other is wandering around in the weight room trying to “make lean gains and burn fat at the same time”. Both are basically spinning their wheels. My anecdotal evidence places the majority of wheel spinners in the under recovered category.
You are basically describing a continuum. If you go low enough on calories and still train too much, you’re gonna be in group 1 symptom wise.
Low calories amp up the sympathetic nervous system, training amps up the sympathetic nervous system, not enough sleep amps up the SNS and so does life stress. A too much in any of those or a combination of those leads to exactly the same symptoms (depressive symptoms essentially).
I understand the extra category though, as when one trains really heavy (high intensity) on big lifts and overdoes it, then this takes a massive toll all at once on the SNS and oftentimes leaves one completely unable to function mentally 1-3 days afterwards. If one would do this over an over again, the symptoms come on way faster and are harsher than when building up cumulatively. It usually us accompanied by a big drop in the weight one is able to use.
If the stress builds up cumulatively, the body stops progressing and starts regressing, but usually this is a slower process. It is still EXACTLY the same process.
Understanding there’s a debate to be had regarding overtraining, many of the hormonal and physical symptoms of overtraining would present simply from eating too few calories or carbs to support whatever the OP’s activity level was.
The training piece may be coincidental and not causal of the symptoms the OP is experiencing.