Homosexuality, Choice or Genetic

There were two guys I went to school with from kindergarden up through highschool who everyone knew were gay from day one. One of them denied it vehemently until he was in his early twenties, then finally came out. A five year old isn’t sexually aware enough to make any kind of choice, that’s just who they were.

I generally believe in nuture over nature, or some interdependence of the two, but something as fundamental as sexual attraction is hardwired from birth.

[quote]BodyBldgBabe wrote:
Dedicated wrote:
BodyBldgBabe wrote:

I’ve also met guys that would fool around with other guys when they weren’t getting anything from their wives or girlfriends. So again their homosexuality behavior was acted out because of the lack of heterosexual physical contact.
B-3

Uh, BBB, don’t quite agree with you on that one. If a guy was truly gay and tried to fit into societal norms and married and had children, then I could see him fooling around with men on the side. But, if a dude was a true hetero and his wife wasn’t giving him any I truly don’t see him getting some peter from the neighbor Peter to tide him over. He’d be looking for trim elsewhere from ladies not men.

D

Hmmmm…how do I answer this??

thinking thinking

Okay D, so what your trying to say is that if at any time a man puts a penis in his mouth he’s homo? Or if a women licks the kitty she’s lesbian?

You haven’t had many 3-sums have you?

My advice to you would be, experiment a little sexually then come back and answer this thread.

Oh…and post pictures PLEEEEEAAAAAZE!!!

[/quote]

Where did he say that? All I saw was straight males seek females and not males, which I happen to agree with. I also tend to think that the act of wanting a cock in your mouth and being male is very gay. Being a woman and wanting to eat pussy, thats very gay. Threesomes are as irrelevant to this topic as begging for free porn in the form of OMFG post pics plllllllllllllllz. Not to mention plugging your vast sexual experience which I am sure makes you a key player in unraveling this mystery…

I tend to think Homosexuality is more in the realm of behaviorism and learned response. For instance what kind of father and mother the child has could influence the way the child displays him/herself and this could effect the way peers see him/her. As the young brain is learning who he/she is based off of the interaction with peers many thought processes could be altered one way or another. All living things want to have connections, and they seek them where they are most likely to be satisfied. Throw puberty into the mix and its amazing we all didn’t euthanize ourselves before 18.

scissor me timbers.

[quote]BodyBldgBabe wrote:

Okay D, so what your trying to say is that if at any time a man puts a penis in his mouth he’s homo? Or if a women licks the kitty she’s lesbian?

You haven’t had many 3-sums have you?

My advice to you would be, experiment a little sexually then come back and answer this thread.

Oh…and post pictures PLEEEEEAAAAAZE!!!

[/quote]

That’s not what I said at all. However, it’s pretty close to the mark IMO. I can only speak for myself and the urge to do anything with another male has never entered my thoughts, whether there was an abundance of women in my environment or not, at any given time. This isn’t homophobic on my part as I don’t really care what anybody else does as long as it doesn’t interfere with me. As far as your other suggestion uh, thanks for the advice and you and bigjames should be the ones posting pics in the near future. Wasn’t there something about a cage match?

Take it easy,

D

A healthy attraction would be to members of the opposite sex, as they offer more of that we do not already have. Men and women complement one another. There is a sexual dichotomy in size, proportion, strength and a dichotomy of traditional gender roles, that leads to more baby making and propagates the species. That’s healthy behavior.

I believe gays are created when the opposite sex parent, or other opposite sex reference models are personally unattractive. Like think of all those gay guys with an evil hose beast mother. Maybe dad was just that much easier to get along with.

Or maybe dad was a sissy, in which case the kid becomes ultra-macho and goes looking for a sissy fag as a partner. Or becomes a sissy fag himself, modeling dad, and hooks up with a macho gay. Of course, dad never need be gay, just personally weak.

I’m sure it works similarly for lesbos.

Either way, the result is a false dichotomy created within a gender. You get butch lesbos and their more feminine girlfriends. Or macho-men with their sissy boyfriends. It’s a set up dichotomy mimicking the normal behavior of men and women, between which a dichotomy already exists.

Therefore, the situation of faggotry is clearly deviant, being based on a concocted dichotomy. But I can’t blame them for who they are, having been raised in bad homes. Can’t really blame anyone for what they came from, imo, though they are still responsible for what they do with it!

Can’t be genetic, they can’t reproduce among themselves and pass the “gay gene” on.

like dollerbill pointed out, i find it wierd that people still work in binaries when there is so much evidence that pretty much everything is SOME distribution of nature and nurture. That being said a couple ideas ive always had are as follows

MOST homosexuals ive come across are act very feminine(i also live officially one of the top 5 gayest cities in the world, sweeeeeeeet) So ive though that perhaps it has to do with an elevated ratio of estrogen to test. Combo that with the fact that this natural inclinces them to hang out with females to fit in more,and you have a perfect setting for being gay.

Another theory that came about when i was watching A and E biogrpahy on serial killers was that they were saying that a possible scenerio for why some people get murder, torture etc mixed up with there sexuality could be that at there 12-14 years of age when they are developing the most sexually there is some sort of exterior activity they partake in, like torturing or killing small animals that MAY intertwine and produce fetishes assosciating the two. I think that something on the same level could happen with people that are gay, perhaps some wierd gay experience at a young age or god forbid some sort of molestation or rape. I dunno though, I know that females generally “discover” they are gay later in life i BELIEVE somewhere close to 30(on average of course) and with men they generally say they knew in there teenage years, so maybe there is also a gender difference?

As long as they dont try and hit on me, or if they continue to do so after learning im not gay, i have no problem with queer folk. Id compare it to a really really ugly girl hitting on me i guess

[quote]BodyBldgBabe wrote:
I SAY POST SOME MAN-ON-MAN LOVE PICTURES, DAMMIT!!! ;D[/quote]

Well CT has that one in his latest article…

I read this news story a while ago about a necrophilic gay duck :confused:
So well if animals can swing that way I suppose it has to be something inherent.

“Ducks behave pretty badly, it seems. It is not so much that up to one in 10 of mallard couples are homosexual…”

Yes, there is also the issue of hormonal balances. Though there is some degree of nutritional input involved in there as well as genetic.

In fact, homos are more likely to be high testosterone. These are probably the ones who have that macho act, or perhaps blend in well with normal men until they say “By the way, I’m gay.” Having an extraordinary high testosterone level, it is as if they are so manly, they just have to make another guy their bitch. Like women don’t even register anymore. And maybe those guy bitches have just enough estrogen + testosterone to mimic a female, in that blown out hormonal range.

It seems similar with women. The chicks who I’ve known to have other women as their bitches were all clearly high testosterone (butch or at least tomboy-like interests). And I’d bet their bitches fit a hormonal niche as well, seeming very demure, super-feminine.

Now here’s something interesting: How much of who we are effects our hormones, and how much of our hormones effects who we are?

I’d say it’s all in some feedback loop, so that “As he thinks, so he is; as he continues to think, so he remains.” - James Allen

We all seem to be looking for our complements. Unfortunate that some were screwed up, so that they can’t find them within the opposite sex.

[quote]Higher Game wrote:
You’re born gay or straight but what you do with it varies. Plenty of gays are “in the closet” with a wife and kids, and plenty of straights will resort to gay sex in some situations, like prison and the Navy.[/quote]

Lol @ the Navy.

both

[quote]MMG wrote:
Before i start this is not meant to offend anyone.

Yesterday a programe in the UK called ‘make me a muslim’ came on, and on there an islamic preist talking to a homosexual said that he believes that a person makes a conscious choice to be gay, while the homosexual said that it is something you are born with and can not choose.

This got me thinking, and was wondering what other people thought on the topic as to whether you make a conscious choice or are born gay?

I personally dont know and cant get my head round this topic. [/quote]

…assuming you are heterosexual: at which point in your life did you decide to become heterosexual?

…forget about heterosexuality being the default sexual preference. Sexual preference is a grey area that is commonly defined by culture and peers, not reality…

…try to separate religious ideas from sexuality. Mixing religion and sexuality is a garantueed recipe for disaster, and has done more evil than good…

…imo; sexuality is defined by a number of causes. One of those causes is genetic, another is circumstance. Pretty much all of these causes are beyond ones control, and thus hetero/bi or homosexuality is not a conscious choice, but an act of nature. Whatever you prefer, there’s no judgment except the judgment of those around you…

You just making shit up as you go along . . . ?

[quote]Kailash wrote:
Yes, there is also the issue of hormonal balances. Though there is some degree of nutritional input involved in there as well as genetic.

In fact, fags are more likely to be high testosterone. These are probably the ones who have that macho act, or perhaps blend in well with normal men until they say “By the way, I’m gay.” Having an extraordinary high testosterone level, it is as if they are so manly, they just have to make a guy their bitch. Like women don’t even register anymore. And maybe those guy bitches have just enough estrogen + testosterone to mimic a female in their blown out hormonal ranges.

It seems similar with women. The bisexual chicks who I’ve known to have women as their bitches were all clearly high testosterone. And I’d bet their bitches fit a hormonal niche as well.

Now here’s something interesting: How much of who we are effects our hormones, and how much of our hormones effects who we are?

It’s all in some feedback loop, so that “As he thinks, so he is; as he continues to think, so he remains.” - James Allen[/quote]

[quote]It goes without saying that somebody in that condition who manages to stay away from homosexual relations gets rewarded by God.

I believe that we are polygamous by nature. Yet, most of us engaged in relationships do the effort to repress their desire to hump other people. Why? Because it’s “the right thing to do”. Homosexuality is no different in my view.

Disclaimer: I am a Muslim.[/quote]

Pretty fair assessment from your side of the the fence Lixy. At least you save the judging to your God, if only we left all of this crap to the supposed creator(s)of the universe there would be no bigotry in the world.
And in my opinion there would have to be at least a 50/50 chance you’d never have to answer to anyone anyway.

If you can look at the hottest member of the opposite sex and not think of sleeping with them its not your choice.

For BBB, since you seem to want some visuals ;p

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
They just had a news article last week where scientist could turn fruit flies gay and then straight again by altering their genetic code. So if this theory holds true for humans it would certainly prove that people are born gay.

I know that my best friend for many years now was born gay. Haha the first CD he ever bought was Madonna so yea that sums it up there.

As far as people born with the lisp and saying fabulous that would come from the culture they associate with. Gangsters aren�??t born talking “ghetto” with their asses hanging out of their pants, but they take on their stereotypes.

Let’s face it, there are stereotypes because they are true lol.
[/quote]

You left out one very important part. They turned the flies gay with a combination of genetic mutation AND drugs.

I have serious doubts that they will ever find a specific gene that controls whether or not one is gay. I believe hormonal imbalances throughout the gestation period and adolescence is the most plausible cause.

[quote]lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
I think that Imans and Priests have a vested interest in believing that being gay is a choice.

Gee…you think?

If homosexuality is a sin and yet they are born that way, meaning God made them that way that leads to some interesting questions.

Many of the traits that define us as individuals are stamped into our genes at birth. Many others are determined by the environment we grew up in. And last I checked, no 5-years old chose to be raised in a ghetto or in fancy neighborhoods. So in effect, we have little control over what was instilled into us at birth and during childhood. But at some point, one should start taking responsibility for his/her own actions. Assuming that some people are born homosexuals, I still think that the ultimate choice is theirs. That’s what distinguishes us from animals in my opinion. It goes without saying that somebody in that condition who manages to stay away from homosexual relations gets rewarded by God.

I believe that we are polygamous by nature. Yet, most of us engaged in relationships do the effort to repress their desire to hump other people. Why? Because it’s “the right thing to do”. Homosexuality is no different in my view.

Disclaimer: I am a Muslim.[/quote]

I agree, as I said before, I doubt there is a purely genetic reason, but their is almost certainly some sort of biological reason that gives people homosexual tendencies. There are also likely biological reasons that cause some people to be sexual predators, child molesters, or even serial killers. Whether or not one acts on these urges is purely choice. I believe that God challenges us all in different ways and ultimately gives us the free will to make our own decisions. The decision to participate in homosexual behaviors is presicely that, a decision.

Sexual preference is probably genetic. Sexual acts are by choice.

And God, if he exists, does not care about it.

[quote]Damici wrote:
You just making shit up as you go along . . . ?

Kailash wrote:
Yes, there is also the issue of hormonal balances. Though there is some degree of nutritional input involved in there as well as genetic.

In fact, fags are more likely to be high testosterone. These are probably the ones who have that macho act, or perhaps blend in well with normal men until they say “By the way, I’m gay.” Having an extraordinary high testosterone level, it is as if they are so manly, they just have to make a guy their bitch. Like women don’t even register anymore. And maybe those guy bitches have just enough estrogen + testosterone to mimic a female in their blown out hormonal ranges.

It seems similar with women. The bisexual chicks who I’ve known to have women as their bitches were all clearly high testosterone. And I’d bet their bitches fit a hormonal niche as well.

Now here’s something interesting: How much of who we are effects our hormones, and how much of our hormones effects who we are?

It’s all in some feedback loop, so that “As he thinks, so he is; as he continues to think, so he remains.” - James Allen

[/quote]

I think so.

There is enough anectdotal evidence of every combination to refute any hard and fast rules about the nature vs nurture debate when it comes to homosexuality. I’ve known people that play the whole “macho man” thing, only to come out of the closet and go completely fem (btw, both of his parents were normal in every sense of the word and his mother was fairly attractive).

I also met two normal guys (normal appearances, normal suits and ties, etc) at a friend’s wedding, talked with them for quite some time about jobs, football, etc, only to be shocked to see them slow-dancing together a little while later. I’ve also seen the fem kid from 1st grade that everyone knew had a little “flair” all along, who ended up being straight.

There are also those people who struggle mightily with being gay and absolutely hate being that way. Those people make me think that it can’t always be 100% nurture and that there must be some biological/genetic component out there.

I’m sure that anyone who has lived an unsheltered life and has gotten out in the world has several of their own experiences like mine.

DB

Oh come on you guys…lets keep it fun and not bring religion into it and start making me feel guilty! Lets just continue to post lots of pictures of really hot guys getting all sweaty while expressing their man love to each other. Someone can post videos or just audios of them gagging on each others money shot. Don’t forget to send pictures of the explosion ooozing out of the side of male “a”'s mouth, while male “b” licks it up clean.

Now…if this thread was about two girls gettin’ it on Jesus wouldn’t be mentioned at all.

So give me a thread with pictures, videos, and lots of man love so I can scream “hit it” and “give it to him in the pooper!!!”

ROFLMAO!!!
ROFLMAO!!!
ROFLMAO!!!

Damn, I crack myself up sometimes!!!

[quote]tedro wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
They just had a news article last week where scientist could turn fruit flies gay and then straight again by altering their genetic code. So if this theory holds true for humans it would certainly prove that people are born gay.

I know that my best friend for many years now was born gay. Haha the first CD he ever bought was Madonna so yea that sums it up there.

As far as people born with the lisp and saying fabulous that would come from the culture they associate with. Gangsters aren�??t born talking “ghetto” with their asses hanging out of their pants, but they take on their stereotypes.

Let’s face it, there are stereotypes because they are true lol.

You left out one very important part. They turned the flies gay with a combination of genetic mutation AND drugs.

I have serious doubts that they will ever find a specific gene that controls whether or not one is gay. I believe hormonal in balances throughout the gestation period and adolescence is the most plausible cause.
[/quote]

Lol oops my bad…I didn’t read the article too closely since it already went with what I believed.

By the way I know two brothers that are about the same age. One turned out to be gay while the other straight. This would suggest that since they were both raised in the same situation, that at least part of it is genetic.

BBB,
I’m pretty sure that at any point if a guy puts a penis in his mouth he’s gay, or at least VERY confused!

If he’s married with kids and fooling around with guys, he’s simply trying to either fool himself or others. We have had several politicians here recently have families and came out of the closet. Let’s face it, they wouldn’t have gotten elected if they didn’t act like they were a family man.