T Nation

Homosexuality, Choice or Genetic


#1

Before i start this is not meant to offend anyone.

Yesterday a programe in the UK called 'make me a muslim' came on, and on there an islamic preist talking to a homosexual said that he believes that a person makes a conscious choice to be gay, while the homosexual said that it is something you are born with and can not choose.

This got me thinking, and was wondering what other people thought on the topic as to whether you make a conscious choice or are born gay?

I personally dont know and cant get my head round this topic.


#2

I think that Imans and Priests have a vested interest in believing that being gay is a choice.

If homosexuality is a sin and yet they are born that way, meaning God made them that way that leads to some interesting questions.


#3

You know what they say about homosexuals: 95 percent are born that way and the other 5 percent have just been sucked into it.


#4

i did consider that, but the question was more on what other people thought that dont have such a vested interest in believing that being gay is a choice.


#5

I worked with a girl who was gay & became best friends with her. After getting to know her (in an un-gay way - ha!) she was actually bi but usually dated women because it was easier for her to attract a lesbian than it was a man.

She was a former college athlete, scholarships for swimming & basketball & still holds school records. Shes 5'10", slender/athletic body, holds a Masters in Exercise Physiology and one of the most intellegant women I've ever met.
It was sad men didn't "notice" her because she had so much to offer. She was a total jock, short hair, no makeup, and only wore a dress one time the entire 8yrs I knew her.

In her case I always thought she was "gay" because it was easier to find love & affection from a women than it was a man.

I've also met guys that would fool around with other guys when they weren't getting anything from their wives or girlfriends. So again their homosexuality behavior was acted out because of the lack of heterosexual physical contact.

So, maybe if men weren't so picky and actually paid attention to those of us who do not rate high on the hottie scale; and if wives and girlfiends would have sex on a regular basis with their men, maybe just maybe there would be an end to homosexuality!! lol

I however am a fan of the weener, so what the heck do I know????

B-3


#6

There are plenty of disorders where people are born with all sorts of things wrong with their brain and I don't see why someone couldn't be born gay. (I only call it a disorder because speaking from an evolutionary standpoint, it isn't very beneficial to be gay) Personally I think that most gay people are born gay, and like lizard king said, a small amount just pretend.

That being said, I really hate the stereotypical gay man, and I've sadly found that a lot of homosexuals fit this stereotype. You are NOT born talking with an exaggerated lisp and saying fabulous. Frankly these people get on my nerves. I have nothing wrong if you have sex with men, fall in love with me, or are generally attracted to men. Although I do hate if you fit the definition of a sterotypical gay person.


#7

Paging Dr. Freud.


#8

They just had a news article last week where scientist could turn fruit flies gay and then straight again by altering their genetic code. So if this theory holds true for humans it would certainly prove that people are born gay.

I know that my best friend for many years now was born gay. Haha the first CD he ever bought was Madonna so yea that sums it up there.

As far as people born with the lisp and saying fabulous that would come from the culture they associate with. Gangsters aren�??t born talking "ghetto" with their asses hanging out of their pants, but they take on their stereotypes.

Let's face it, there are stereotypes because they are true lol.


#9

I don't think I could just choose to like cock one day and actually like it as a result. I think anyone who feels otherwise probably has more than a little of the ghey in themselves. Maybe that's what those people mean though- they have a yearning for the schlong but deny themselves it and instead become "celibate" holy men.


#10

Uh, BBB, don't quite agree with you on that one. If a guy was truly gay and tried to fit into societal norms and married and had children, then I could see him fooling around with men on the side. But, if a dude was a true hetero and his wife wasn't giving him any I truly don't see him getting some peter from the neighbor Peter to tide him over. He'd be looking for trim elsewhere from ladies not men.

D


#11

Soooo...who's going to be the first to post some man-on-man love pictures!!!!!!!!!

I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS!

;D


#12

True that D!

There is no "choice" in the matter, if there were then ANY hetro male could suddenly decide to start slapping willies with another man. And let me tell you, no matter how horney he might be, a hetro male just doesn't look over at another guy's ass one day and say: "hmmm, I would like to have a piece of that."


#13

Hmmmm...how do I answer this??

thinking thinking

Okay D, so what your trying to say is that if at any time a man puts a penis in his mouth he's homo? Or if a women licks the kitty she's lesbian?

You haven't had many 3-sums have you?

My advice to you would be, experiment a little sexually then come back and answer this thread.

Oh...and post pictures PLEEEEEAAAAAZE!!!!!


#14

You're born gay or straight but what you do with it varies. Plenty of gays are "in the closet" with a wife and kids, and plenty of straights will resort to gay sex in some situations, like prison and the Navy.


#15

Dereft brings up an interesting point about behavior. Though to be honest this isn't isolated to gay males. There are stereotypical behaviors for all genders and there are plenty of people who adopt them.

Personally I'm more of a "nurture" fan. I'm not saying that parents make their children gay though. What I'm saying is that the individuals life experiences often have a lot to do with their sexual preferences later in life.

Triple B (hope you don't mind me calling you that) brought up an interesting point about sexual frustrations possibly influencing sexual orientation.

If for instance a male doesn't fit the male ideal (whatever that may be) and never learns how to attract women, yet has no problems around other men. Then perhaps they might choose to become homosexual in order to appease their sexual needs.

Also, the fact that homosexuality has become much more accepted in our country (though there still is prejudice) and that there are examples of homosexuals on television and in the media in general; gives people a model for that behavior. It probably also influences some people's decisions as to what their sexual preferences are.

If the above example male watches "Will and Grace" and identifies with Jack, then perhaps they might decide that they two must be gay. And model many of Jack's behaviors in order to more accurately "fit" into their role.

I'm not saying that this is always the case though. There may indeed be individuals who are truly born gay. I knew a guy (was friends with my youngest sister) who was very feminine and exhibited many stereotypical homosexual behaviors from pretty much the beginning of his personality development (I knew him since he was an infant).

To date, he is the strongest example of an individual being "born gay" that I have ever met/seen. He is also the only one to date that I have ever known personally.

That doesn't mean that there aren't others like him, just none that I have known personally.

That's my two cents.


#16

As with most things that polarize opinions into black and white, the answer is usually in the gray area in between.I think there is probably a gene that causes a predisposition to be gay, but I also feel that environment has something to do with it as well.

DB


#17

I SAY POST SOME MAN-ON-MAN LOVE PICTURES, DAMMIT!!! ;D


#18

Feeling a little frisky B-3? :wink:


#19

Gee...you think?

Many of the traits that define us as individuals are stamped into our genes at birth. Many others are determined by the environment we grew up in. And last I checked, no 5-years old chose to be raised in a ghetto or in fancy neighborhoods. So in effect, we have little control over what was instilled into us at birth and during childhood. But at some point, one should start taking responsibility for his/her own actions. Assuming that some people are born homosexuals, I still think that the ultimate choice is theirs. That's what distinguishes us from animals in my opinion. It goes without saying that somebody in that condition who manages to stay away from homosexual relations gets rewarded by God.

I believe that we are polygamous by nature. Yet, most of us engaged in relationships do the effort to repress their desire to hump other people. Why? Because it's "the right thing to do". Homosexuality is no different in my view.

Disclaimer: I am a Muslim.


#20

I've got to think it's primarily a "born that way" thing, though perhaps environment (what you experienced, how you were raised/parented, who you hung around, what you saw, etc.) might play some part in determining your sexuality as well. In other words, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some people whose biological makeup dictates that no matter what happens to them in life and their experiences, they WILL be gay when they grow up. And perhaps there are other gay people who have a strong genetic component that made it POSSIBLE but not CERTAIN for them to end up gay when they grew up, but environmental factors (life experiences) might've ended up tipping the balance one way or the other.

But that's all just my hunch. And, once we get into including the subject of those who are bisexual in the discussion, it gets even more muddy.

On a related note, a couple years ago I met (and ended up dating for quite some time) a very hot "lesbian." She had never slept (or sexually fooled around with) a man before and fully thought of herself as being a lesbian. (She was 31 at the time). Suffice it so say, one thing led to another and we became close, then closer. We would make out, and she would be into it. I'd put my hand on her nether regions and play with her and she would be soaking, soaking wet. I'd get her off orally or otherwise and she'd have major orgasms. All this time (first few months of our "relationship") I would rib her and say things like "You are one sorry excuse for a lesbian!" And she would reply that yes, she was indeed a lesbian, and that merely enjoying being touched by someone, etc. did not make her straight or bi, but that she "identified" as being a lesbian and "that's what matters."

Yeah, fine, define it whichever way makes you feel most comfy but, as I tried to explain to her, she is not fully "lesbian" the way I am fully straight. She fools around with a guy and gets soaking wet and has intense orgasms. If I were ever, God forbid (PURELY hypothetically, here) to do ANY such thing with a guy, my dick would shrivel up, my nuts would retract inside my body, I would vomit, and then I'd probably reflexively punch the other guy in the face. As opposed a guy who was fully gay (or bi), whose dick would stand up in such a situation.

And yes, in answer to everyone's burning question, we did indeed eventually seal the deal, and had a relationship that went on for about a year and a half. (Eventually she pissed me off for totally unrelated reasons -- got on my nerves -- and I told her to lose my number. She's since moved away and, as far as I've heard, is back to petting kitty).

Interestingly, she grew up in a household where her father was a physically abusive alcoholic. Not sexually abusive, but it sounds like she and her sister often got beaten up pretty roughly. (No, the sister is not a lesbian). I have a hard time believing that this abuse at the hands of what was the only meaningful male figure in her life, ever, didn't played into her sexual orientation to some degree. She's majorly attracted to women and always will be, make no mistake (I'd say her "compass" is probably 80/20 in favor of pointing towards women), but technically she's bi, and I would think she could certainly end up in a lifelong relationship with either a woman or a man if she met the right one, BUT, in order for that to be a man she would have to allow herself to be in a POSITION in which she was willing to meet a man and let it develop into a romantic context. She never did that for the first 31 years of her life.