T Nation

Home Defense Part 2


Thinking about getting this for now, until I have hand-gun money.

Here is what I ended up going with:

A cheap shotgun is $219 and far better than a handgun.

Here:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/GUN-982

@Jewbacca, can you elaborate on your reasoning a little bit ? This could take a door down as well http://www.ruger.com/products/redhawk/models.html .

Have a Glock 9mm and a Mosberg 12 gauge for the house. Keep a .380 for ‘car defense’.

[quote]triple-10sets wrote:
@Jewbacca, can you elaborate on your reasoning a little bit ? This could take a door down as well http://www.ruger.com/products/redhawk/models.html .[/quote]

check the price.

[quote]triple-10sets wrote:
@Jewbacca, can you elaborate on your reasoning a little bit ? This could take a door down as well http://www.ruger.com/products/redhawk/models.html .[/quote]

Well, I’m not Jewbacca, but here’s my $.02, for what little it may be worth. Long guns in general and shotguns specifically outperform pistols in almost every respect except concealability and close quarter manoeuvrability. Firearms stop people by putting holes in them. Shotguns (if you are proficient in using one) put much bigger holes in people than pistols, thus they do a superior job of stopping them. 00 buckshot is less likely to over-penetrate than a large calibre pistol round, making it less likely that you will inadvertently shoot non-combatants. Lastly, shotguns have a certain “force presence”. In other words, they are universally recognized as being fricken scary, which is a plus. I would also expect that that Ruger costs a little more than the average entry level shotgun.

The downsides with the shotgun are that is more unwieldy than a pistol (although for home defence you may want to stay stationary and preferably behind cover/concealment as opposed to mobile anyway). Also, you will need to rack a round each time you want to fire. Overall, however, the pluses outweigh the minuses IMO. At the end of the day your own competence and will to effectively and appropriately employ a the weapon is more important than which weapon you choose anyway (although I’d want a little more standoff distance than a big knife offers). I’m not an expert by any means, far from it, but that’s my take.

The thing I don’t like about knives is that you have to be right there on the person, pushing the object into their body and getting their blood on your hands and what not.

That is way to up close and personal for me, and the main reason I seriously doubt that most people can use one effectively.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
A cheap shotgun is $219 and far better than a handgun.

Here:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/GUN-982[/quote]

X2

My 12 gauge was a Hawk> Its basically a clone of the Remington 870 it is a bit heavier but, that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. The H&R Pardner Pump might also be worth looking into, my local Walmart has one for about $160 so the price should be similar nationally.

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]triple-10sets wrote:
@Jewbacca, can you elaborate on your reasoning a little bit ? This could take a door down as well http://www.ruger.com/products/redhawk/models.html .[/quote]

Well, I’m not Jewbacca, but here’s my $.02, for what little it may be worth. Long guns in general and shotguns specifically outperform pistols in almost every respect except concealability and close quarter manoeuvrability. Firearms stop people by putting holes in them. Shotguns (if you are proficient in using one) put much bigger holes in people than pistols, thus they do a superior job of stopping them. 00 buckshot is less likely to over-penetrate than a large calibre pistol round, making it less likely that you will inadvertently shoot non-combatants. Lastly, shotguns have a certain “force presence”. In other words, they are universally recognized as being fricken scary, which is a plus. I would also expect that that Ruger costs a little more than the average entry level shotgun.

The downsides with the shotgun are that is more unwieldy than a pistol (although for home defence you may want to stay stationary and preferably behind cover/concealment as opposed to mobile anyway). Also, you will need to rack a round each time you want to fire. Overall, however, the pluses outweigh the minuses IMO. At the end of the day your own competence and will to effectively and appropriately employ a the weapon is more important than which weapon you choose anyway (although I’d want a little more standoff distance than a big knife offers). I’m not an expert by any means, far from it, but that’s my take.[/quote]

All good points, I would add in accuracy. Shotgun is point and shoot, the much shorter barrel of a pistol makes it a lot harder for someone that is not proficient to hit something under pressure.

Plus that whole blowing shit in half thing.

[quote]triple-10sets wrote:
Here is what I ended up going with:[/quote]
I have that exact same green dishcloth.

The main argument for a handgun is a free hand to open doors, hold a flashlight, grab your kids. Also, collateral damage is possible with any round.

The idea of intimidation with a shotgun is partially true. All guns have that factor. I could make the same argument for a 1911 pointed in your face.

Chambering a round on a pump shotgun is a distinct sound. However, so is the sound of racking a slide on a 1911 or a Glock or a Ruger 22 pistol for that matter. Regardless, those sounds should be occurring well before any interaction with a potential criminal.

Another plus for handguns, is the close effective distance. The one hand shove back of the bad guy is enough room to engage without a chance of the threat redirecting the barrel.

Just thoughts.

[quote]perhms wrote:
The idea of intimidation with a shotgun is partially true. All guns have that factor. I could make the same argument for a 1911 pointed in your face.

Chambering a round on a pump shotgun is a distinct sound.[/quote]
I remember reading a study on the “scariest/most intimidating sounds”. Number 2 was a very big dog barking, and number 1 was the sound of racking a shotgun.

I would really love to get a Ruger revolver at some point.

For now my home defense is TNT (my left hand) and Sudden Death (my right hand). I do love knives, but to be quite honest, I don’t know shit about knife fighting and I would honestly feel more comfortable fighting someone with my bare hands in pretty much every situation.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
The thing I don’t like about knives is that you have to be right there on the person, pushing the object into their body and getting their blood on your hands and what not.

That is way to up close and personal for me, and the main reason I seriously doubt that most people can use one effectively.
[/quote]

I agree. I prefer to keep my distance.

[quote]csulli wrote:
I would really love to get a Ruger revolver at some point.
[/quote]

I am quite partial to the Ruger, but cheap? No, not if you get a good one. I prefer to have stopping power with one shot. I wouldn’t get anything smaller than a 38.

It’s a little pricey but I think a ‘Judge’ or a ‘Governor’ are the best personal defense guns because you can load them with .410 shotgun shells. So even with a shaky hand, you have a good chance on hitting the motherfucker.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
I would really love to get a Ruger revolver at some point.
[/quote]

I am quite partial to the Ruger, but cheap? No, not if you get a good one. I prefer to have stopping power with one shot. I wouldn’t get anything smaller than a 38.[/quote]
Oh yeah I know it aint cheap. What I really want is a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. I don’t know much about guns, and people will probably say the 6" barrel isn’t what you want for a close quarters home defense type gun, but I fuckin want it anyway. It looks badass.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
I would really love to get a Ruger revolver at some point.
[/quote]

I am quite partial to the Ruger, but cheap? No, not if you get a good one. I prefer to have stopping power with one shot. I wouldn’t get anything smaller than a 38.[/quote]
Oh yeah I know it aint cheap. What I really want is a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. I don’t know much about guns, and people will probably say the 6" barrel isn’t what you want for a close quarters home defense type gun, but I fuckin want it anyway. It looks badass.[/quote]

It is bad ass and easy to shoot, but hard to carry. I opted for the SP101 .357 mag. It’s got the power, but its a concealable gun so I can carry it anywhere. It’s not as easy to shoot as the 6", but it’s got the power there is just a higher learning curve getting the aim right. There’s nothing like a 12" muzzle flash coming out the end of your gun.

I am going to spend the long dollar on a proper 1911 next. After that, I am going for either a .500 mag or a .44 auto mag. I like the sheer ausurdity of the 500. It doesn’t make sense on any level. But a 500 with a 500 grain round? Now that is sexy.

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]triple-10sets wrote:
@Jewbacca, can you elaborate on your reasoning a little bit ? This could take a door down as well http://www.ruger.com/products/redhawk/models.html .[/quote]

Well, I’m not Jewbacca, but here’s my $.02, for what little it may be worth. Long guns in general and shotguns specifically outperform pistols in almost every respect except concealability and close quarter manoeuvrability. Firearms stop people by putting holes in them. Shotguns (if you are proficient in using one) put much bigger holes in people than pistols, thus they do a superior job of stopping them. 00 buckshot is less likely to over-penetrate than a large calibre pistol round, making it less likely that you will inadvertently shoot non-combatants. Lastly, shotguns have a certain “force presence”. In other words, they are universally recognized as being fricken scary, which is a plus. I would also expect that that Ruger costs a little more than the average entry level shotgun.

The downsides with the shotgun are that is more unwieldy than a pistol (although for home defence you may want to stay stationary and preferably behind cover/concealment as opposed to mobile anyway). Also, you will need to rack a round each time you want to fire. Overall, however, the pluses outweigh the minuses IMO. At the end of the day your own competence and will to effectively and appropriately employ a the weapon is more important than which weapon you choose anyway (although I’d want a little more standoff distance than a big knife offers). I’m not an expert by any means, far from it, but that’s my take.[/quote]

X2.

Plus, light shot (e.g., medium bird shot) stays together in “in-house” range but rapidly loses momentum – so it is effectively a close-range slug that is less likely to penetrate through a distant wall and accidently kill someone. So it’s great for an apartment dweller. Put it as your first shot and subsequent have it be 00 buck, last a slug.

A shotgun blast kills someone right away. A pistol, not so much. Again, the idea is to “stop the threat.” Having a football size hole in the mid-section is a pretty solid threat deterrant.

I respectfully disagree with (or discount) the various comments about a pistol freeing up a hand for a flashlight or being more manuverable

First, you shouldn’t need or want a flashlight in your own house. I can get around my house in the dark having drunk a bottle of Cabernet because I just “know” where evertyhing is. You are undoubtedly the same in your own house. An intruder, not so much. THEY are the ones wandering around with a flashlight trying not to fall on their ass. You pick your spot and abush them. Surprise and home turf are a huge advantage.

Second, you hold a pistol with two hands, unless you have to do something. A short barrelled shotgun (not a pistol grip, a normal rifle) can also be weilded with one hand from the hip. So I don’t see much difference.

Third, a flashlight says “Hi, shoot me.” And you shouldn’t be opening doors. Let the intruder opent the door and shoot him from a crouch as he clears the threshold.

Fourth, a shotgun is a big metal club after you run out of rounds. Not a bad thing as weapoons go.

[quote]csulli wrote:
For now my home defense is TNT (my left hand) and Sudden Death (my right hand). I do love knives, but to be quite honest, I don’t know shit about knife fighting and I would honestly feel more comfortable fighting someone with my bare hands in pretty much every situation.[/quote]

You know, having watched an effectively diarmed city (Boston) have to go into total lockdown because of two armed people confirmed everything I suspected about how stupid it is to be disarmed.