T Nation

HMG Experiment


#1

HMG started yesterday at 75ius 2x/wk. Goal is to stabilize my E2 and eventually get rod of the AI hopefully. I'm hoping the HCG was causing most of my estrogen problems and from my understanding HMG doesn't aromatize like hcg does.

My only worry is having a drop in my test levels from taking away the hcg. Hopefully its just a trade off with less estrogen. Anybody have any thoughts? This shit is ridiculously expensive 6 doses costs $591.00 without insurance. Thank God I have a good plan.


#2

whats HMG whats it suppose to do?


#3

HMG is the king of gonadotropins. Instead of mimicing hormones like HCG does it actually contains both LH and FSH hormones. It stimulates both Test and Sperm production in men and is suppose to cause less aromatization we'll see.


#4

Why create a new thread without any context about you. -dumb

You have not described what your hCG protocol or AI protocols were, leaving us blind.

hCG does not aromatize, T does. For any level of intratesticular testosterone [ITT], the rate of ITT T-->E is probably independent of the type of gonadotropin used.

"""
Menotropin (also called human menopausal gonadotropin or HMG) is an active substance for the treatment of fertility disturbances. It consists of gonadotropins that are extracted from the urine of postmenopausal women,[1] usually luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH).[2][3] Often, it contains human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) as well.[1][4]
"""

You are getting LH and hCG with that. I do not see a need to add hCG. But, if both combined solved your issues and allows for smaller doses of each, the economics would be better.


#5

I am interested to see what happens. Thanks for the thread.


#6

KSman, you are a knowledgable guy, you've helped a lot of people, but you really need to work on your people skills.

I've seen some errors on the thread, same ones you pointed out.

Errors are to be expected, as the posters here are here to learn. If threads did not contain some errors, why, then none of us would need to post or read, because we know it all.

The only thing "dumb" thing I've seen is your pathetic attitude.


#7

deep breathes everyone.

nice calming deep breathes

everyone here volunteers their time to help and you have to admit it can get frustrating at time with posters making things more difficult then they have to be.

we are all human and we all make mistakes. no need for anyone to slam anyone or let the tone of the board get out of hand. agreed?


#8

As i stated above KSMAN we took away the HCG and added HMG we didn't add them together and I hope that its an equal trade off as far as what testosterone is produced from the substance. Not all HMG products contain HCG I'm using the brand REPRONEX that contains only LH and FSH and with it containing the actual analog of LH why add a HCG. Since I just started yesterday there is no context to post when I get my first set of labs done I will share any negatives/benefits that may have taken place.


#9

Oscar has been fracturing his case over and over again in separate threads since last summer. He is not a newbie.

You can find his post from last August with his original lab work if you want to try to find out what the situation is.


#10

Is the issue testicular maintenance or fertility? Would be useful to know your TRT protocols and other things.

HMG is extracted from the urine of menopausal women, who are producing high amounts of gonadotropins trying to get estrogens from failing ovaries. It does not contain LH and FSH only. hCG may be a minor component.

You are correct that the LH in hMG can do everything that you need. Using less with hCG might have some cost advantages if the outcome is otherwise favorable.

High amounts of LH receptor activation in the testes may lead to high E2 levels, that anastrozole may not be able deal with effectively. High amounts of LH can do the same thing as hCG. [I have no idea from this post what your E2 issues with hCG were.] When normal males take 1mg anastrozole per day, LH levels increase a lot and E2 levels rise, because anastrozole cannot modulate T-->E2 inside the testes. That demonstrates that LH can lead to the same E2 issues as hCG.

I have no idea what the dose of HMG would be to replace 250iu hCG EOD. You will be better off injecting HMG every day, or perhaps twice per day. LH has a short half life.


more HMG info:

"""Repronex is a fertility medication that is injected either subcutaneously or intramuscularly. It contains follicle stimulating hormone and luteinizing hormone purified from the urine of postmenopausal women.""" Does not state that there is no hCG. In any case, the LH and whatever amount of hCG there is will be doing the same thing.

More: ""Repronex® (menotropins for injection, USP) is a purified preparation of gonadotropins extracted from the urine of postmenopausal women. Each vial of Repronex® contains 75 International Units (IU) or 150 IU of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) activity and 75 IU or 150 IU of luteinizing hormone (LH) activity, respectively, plus 20 mg lactose monohydrate in a sterile, lyophilized form. The final product may contain sodium phosphate buffer (sodium phosphate tribasic and phosphoric acid). Repronex® is administered by subcutaneous or intramuscular injection. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG), a naturally occurring hormone in post-menopausal urine, is detected in Repronex®."""


#11

You know what dude in this thread all I stated was a change we had made from HCG to HMG, how I was going to administer it, and what our goals were for the change. We don't know what the replacement dose for 250ius of HCG is so 2x/wk is our starting point. Yes I have read many medical articles that it needs to be taken daily and don't know Han and Dr. O have in mind. The reason for taking HCG is for testicular stimulation and fertility so taking HMG is no different for me. I know your well respected here and you've given myself some good advice and I appreciate it but honestly if you don't have anything but negativity to add just keep it to yourself. I thought the purpose of these forums was so the members could post there experiences and others could learn from them.

My protocol is 60mg Test E E3D HMG 75ius E3D/day before test. Exemestane liquid 3.125mg E3D/day of Test.
On this dose of AI I have had great libido which is something I've been chasing. I raised up to 6.25mg and could tell it was to much by mid day. So I will skip a dose and resume at 3.125mg. The other symtoms that I was having while on the HCG and Arimidex headaches,swollen glands,fatigue,have almost disappeared. I know it's early in the change but I've got my fingers crossed we'll see in 4wks.


#12

Oscar,

Do you have any updates? How did the hMG work out for you? Did it solve the aromatization issues?