HMB-FA (HMB Free Acid)

[quote]fightnews wrote:
I’m glad you made progress but I have to say you gained more fat than you think. Remember when you gain fat you gain it all over not just in 1 place. I believe you could of gotten the exact same results with just the PA. Also aren’t you using Plazma to? It’s not just me that thinks clear muscle is a bust, HMB-fa has been getting universally panned all over the place.

But honestly bro If you want to seriously grow you’re going to need more rest days. Working out for 2hrs a day 7 days a week isn’t going to do it. You gotta bring that mass up to match that knowledge, [/quote]

I’ve been on PA and Plazma for at least 40 days prior to HMB-FA. I’ve made this pretty clear.

I also did note that I got softer, I’ve noted that earlier BUT what you need to consider is that it’s 12-14 lbs scale weight gain. Relative to the weight gain, the fat is negligible. My legs are actually a lot bigger as well AND they have more definition now than they did when I was 12-14 lbs lighter. Also look at my neck and traps. The size difference is actually very little fat gain with all things considered.

As for HMB-FA being universally panned, yeah, by people that are assuming it’s a anabolic. It’s not. The science does not suggest that it’s a very good anabolic but the science suggests that it’s a very strong anti-catabolic. The HMB-FA study also replicated the results seen from another lab done on HMB-Ca by Kraemer several years earlier. We basically have TWO studies that have essentially demonstrated similar results.

Need I also point out that the people panning HMB-FA before people started using it were and still are by people whom clearly did not bother too look into the ingredient and instead just jumping on the bandwagon of panning the stuff because it’s what appears to be the cool thing to do at the moment?

As for putting on mass, that’s 12-14 lbs scale weight gain, very obvious size gains with very negligible fat gains as one can see in the photo. I made a whole lot of gains in a very small amount of time with the only new variable being the HMB-FA. Rate of progression shot through the roof there in comparison to my prior rate of progression (even with the PA).

Like I’ve mentioned, if you’re looking for an anabolic in HMB-FA, you’re not going to get that. It’s not the main MOA of the ingredient. However, if you can bring your training up to take advantage of the anti-catabolic MOA of the ingredient, it’s going to shine. It will also shine when you’re on a cut since you are putting yourself in potentially muscle wasting state when cutting. Don’t blame the stuff for not working if at the end of the day you’re not applying the right tool (the supplement) for the right job (training).

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]kissdadookie wrote:

[quote]Myosin wrote:

[quote]kissdadookie wrote:
After 12 weeks with HMB-FA + Micro-PA:

[/quote]

So what was the results by the numbers?[/quote]

12-14 lbs scale weight increase. A bit softer now as you can tell in the photo, but relative to the amount of size and weight I’ve gained, pretty negligible fat gain.

Strength-wise, I’ve only really tested my db flat bench throughout. Gained 40 lbs on that lift (20 lbs each side), went from a newly acquired 80 lbs training max to 100 lbs training max (hit that one last week). Last time I went for 3RM squats, I did 315, I’ve been training @ 225 + 60 lbs of chains for squats the past few weeks, reps have been going up on those with the last session hitting 1x10 followed by 3x8 on those. Going to test my squat next week along with my deadlift. IMHO, both those lift most definitely went up quite a bit, I just haven’t tested to see by how much.

So this is with a combination of using HMB-FA with the Micro-PA. Micro-PA I had been using for 2 bottles straight prior to starting the HMB-FA. Micro-PA alone got me 3 lbs of scale weight pretty quick on the first bottle (my guess is a jump in glycogen and intracellular water retention).

I did put in a lot of work though, HMB-FA isn’t really an anabolic so it’s not going to put muscle on you, but it’s really effective as an anti-catabolic as it directly inhibits protein breakdown. Layman’s terms, you have a higher capacity to train (train more) as well as having a much better protein breakdown to protein sythesis ratio.[/quote]
Like i said in the other post the fat gain is more then you think, you are biased looking at your own picture. I’m not bringing this up to insult you, you made some progress but the study on hmbfa claims you will lose fat up to 10 lbs lol. And you keep saying anti catabolic, anti catabolic. Going catabolic has everything to do with cortisol and stress hmb-fa does nothing for that.[/quote]

Wow, basically you’re just letting your bias get the best of you.

Look at the difference in arms alone. Look at the neck. Look at the traps. Look at the forearms. LOL. Yeah, I sure gained a whole lot of fat!

[quote]kissdadookie wrote:

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]kissdadookie wrote:

[quote]Myosin wrote:

[quote]kissdadookie wrote:
After 12 weeks with HMB-FA + Micro-PA:

[/quote]

So what was the results by the numbers?[/quote]

12-14 lbs scale weight increase. A bit softer now as you can tell in the photo, but relative to the amount of size and weight I’ve gained, pretty negligible fat gain.

Strength-wise, I’ve only really tested my db flat bench throughout. Gained 40 lbs on that lift (20 lbs each side), went from a newly acquired 80 lbs training max to 100 lbs training max (hit that one last week). Last time I went for 3RM squats, I did 315, I’ve been training @ 225 + 60 lbs of chains for squats the past few weeks, reps have been going up on those with the last session hitting 1x10 followed by 3x8 on those. Going to test my squat next week along with my deadlift. IMHO, both those lift most definitely went up quite a bit, I just haven’t tested to see by how much.

So this is with a combination of using HMB-FA with the Micro-PA. Micro-PA I had been using for 2 bottles straight prior to starting the HMB-FA. Micro-PA alone got me 3 lbs of scale weight pretty quick on the first bottle (my guess is a jump in glycogen and intracellular water retention).

I did put in a lot of work though, HMB-FA isn’t really an anabolic so it’s not going to put muscle on you, but it’s really effective as an anti-catabolic as it directly inhibits protein breakdown. Layman’s terms, you have a higher capacity to train (train more) as well as having a much better protein breakdown to protein sythesis ratio.[/quote]
Like i said in the other post the fat gain is more then you think, you are biased looking at your own picture. I’m not bringing this up to insult you, you made some progress but the study on hmbfa claims you will lose fat up to 10 lbs lol. And you keep saying anti catabolic, anti catabolic. Going catabolic has everything to do with cortisol and stress hmb-fa does nothing for that.[/quote]

Wow, basically you’re just letting your bias get the best of you.

Look at the difference in arms alone. Look at the neck. Look at the traps. Look at the forearms. LOL. Yeah, I sure gained a whole lot of fat!

[/quote] Look at the stomach, you had abs before, Anyway you keep going on and on about how its only anti catabolic in every thread. You assume everyone is an idiot who doesn’t know the difference. If hmb fa is so anti catabolic what does it do to control cortisol, glucagon, or adrenaline? The main hormones involved in going “catabolic”. Does it produce any catecholamines in the body?

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]kissdadookie wrote:

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]kissdadookie wrote:

[quote]Myosin wrote:

[quote]kissdadookie wrote:
After 12 weeks with HMB-FA + Micro-PA:

[/quote]

So what was the results by the numbers?[/quote]

12-14 lbs scale weight increase. A bit softer now as you can tell in the photo, but relative to the amount of size and weight I’ve gained, pretty negligible fat gain.

Strength-wise, I’ve only really tested my db flat bench throughout. Gained 40 lbs on that lift (20 lbs each side), went from a newly acquired 80 lbs training max to 100 lbs training max (hit that one last week). Last time I went for 3RM squats, I did 315, I’ve been training @ 225 + 60 lbs of chains for squats the past few weeks, reps have been going up on those with the last session hitting 1x10 followed by 3x8 on those. Going to test my squat next week along with my deadlift. IMHO, both those lift most definitely went up quite a bit, I just haven’t tested to see by how much.

So this is with a combination of using HMB-FA with the Micro-PA. Micro-PA I had been using for 2 bottles straight prior to starting the HMB-FA. Micro-PA alone got me 3 lbs of scale weight pretty quick on the first bottle (my guess is a jump in glycogen and intracellular water retention).

I did put in a lot of work though, HMB-FA isn’t really an anabolic so it’s not going to put muscle on you, but it’s really effective as an anti-catabolic as it directly inhibits protein breakdown. Layman’s terms, you have a higher capacity to train (train more) as well as having a much better protein breakdown to protein sythesis ratio.[/quote]
Like i said in the other post the fat gain is more then you think, you are biased looking at your own picture. I’m not bringing this up to insult you, you made some progress but the study on hmbfa claims you will lose fat up to 10 lbs lol. And you keep saying anti catabolic, anti catabolic. Going catabolic has everything to do with cortisol and stress hmb-fa does nothing for that.[/quote]

Wow, basically you’re just letting your bias get the best of you.

Look at the difference in arms alone. Look at the neck. Look at the traps. Look at the forearms. LOL. Yeah, I sure gained a whole lot of fat!

[/quote] Look at the stomach, you had abs before, Anyway you keep going on and on about how its only anti catabolic in every thread. You assume everyone is an idiot who doesn’t know the difference. If hmb fa is so anti catabolic what does it do to control cortisol, glucagon, or adrenaline? The main hormones involved in going “catabolic”. Does it produce any catecholamines in the body?
[/quote]

I still have abs. LoL. HMB works on the ubiquitin-proteasome proteolysis dependent pathway. This pathway releases enzymes to break down protein. They are released when under 1) physical stressors (exercise) and 2) when substrate is needed for energy (for example, when you cut). Cortisol isn’t actually this great big demon that you are trying to make it out to be. It’s chronic prolonged elevations in cortisol that is going to be an issue which causes increased fat gain while being catabolic to muscle.

It’s very obvious that you don’t have a clue as to the main pathways that causes protein breakdown. You actually don’t appear to have any sort of a grasp on what cortisol does to begin with. It’s quite obvious that all you’ve done is make a blanket assumption that cortisol is bad without understanding HOW cortisol can be bad.

As for abs, lol. That’s all you’re focusing on? LOL. Your basically judging fat gain based solely on abs? LOL. LOOK AT MY FOREARMS, NECK, TRAPS. Heck, even my abs, they are way THICKER now. Yeah, there’s a bit of fat, but you need to take into consideration the amount of weight I’ve put on as well. The fat gain is always relative to the weight gain. You’re not going to gain all muscle so the key is to look at how much muscle you put compared to fat gain.

[quote]kissdadookie wrote:

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]kissdadookie wrote:

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]kissdadookie wrote:

[quote]Myosin wrote:

[quote]kissdadookie wrote:
After 12 weeks with HMB-FA + Micro-PA:

[/quote]

So what was the results by the numbers?[/quote]

12-14 lbs scale weight increase. A bit softer now as you can tell in the photo, but relative to the amount of size and weight I’ve gained, pretty negligible fat gain.

Strength-wise, I’ve only really tested my db flat bench throughout. Gained 40 lbs on that lift (20 lbs each side), went from a newly acquired 80 lbs training max to 100 lbs training max (hit that one last week). Last time I went for 3RM squats, I did 315, I’ve been training @ 225 + 60 lbs of chains for squats the past few weeks, reps have been going up on those with the last session hitting 1x10 followed by 3x8 on those. Going to test my squat next week along with my deadlift. IMHO, both those lift most definitely went up quite a bit, I just haven’t tested to see by how much.

So this is with a combination of using HMB-FA with the Micro-PA. Micro-PA I had been using for 2 bottles straight prior to starting the HMB-FA. Micro-PA alone got me 3 lbs of scale weight pretty quick on the first bottle (my guess is a jump in glycogen and intracellular water retention).

I did put in a lot of work though, HMB-FA isn’t really an anabolic so it’s not going to put muscle on you, but it’s really effective as an anti-catabolic as it directly inhibits protein breakdown. Layman’s terms, you have a higher capacity to train (train more) as well as having a much better protein breakdown to protein sythesis ratio.[/quote]
Like i said in the other post the fat gain is more then you think, you are biased looking at your own picture. I’m not bringing this up to insult you, you made some progress but the study on hmbfa claims you will lose fat up to 10 lbs lol. And you keep saying anti catabolic, anti catabolic. Going catabolic has everything to do with cortisol and stress hmb-fa does nothing for that.[/quote]

Wow, basically you’re just letting your bias get the best of you.

Look at the difference in arms alone. Look at the neck. Look at the traps. Look at the forearms. LOL. Yeah, I sure gained a whole lot of fat!

[/quote] Look at the stomach, you had abs before, Anyway you keep going on and on about how its only anti catabolic in every thread. You assume everyone is an idiot who doesn’t know the difference. If hmb fa is so anti catabolic what does it do to control cortisol, glucagon, or adrenaline? The main hormones involved in going “catabolic”. Does it produce any catecholamines in the body?
[/quote]

I still have abs. LoL. HMB works on the ubiquitin-proteasome proteolysis dependent pathway. This pathway releases enzymes to break down protein. They are released when under 1) physical stressors (exercise) and 2) when substrate is needed for energy (for example, when you cut). Cortisol isn’t actually this great big demon that you are trying to make it out to be. It’s chronic prolonged elevations in cortisol that is going to be an issue which causes increased fat gain while being catabolic to muscle.

It’s very obvious that you don’t have a clue as to the main pathways that causes protein breakdown. You actually don’t appear to have any sort of a grasp on what cortisol does to begin with. It’s quite obvious that all you’ve done is make a blanket assumption that cortisol is bad without understanding HOW cortisol can be bad.

As for abs, lol. That’s all you’re focusing on? LOL. Your basically judging fat gain based solely on abs? LOL. LOOK AT MY FOREARMS, NECK, TRAPS. Heck, even my abs, they are way THICKER now. Yeah, there’s a bit of fat, but you need to take into consideration the amount of weight I’ve put on as well. The fat gain is always relative to the weight gain. You’re not going to gain all muscle so the key is to look at how much muscle you put compared to fat gain.
[/quote]

Whatever dude you are a know it all, You gained a lot of fat and you’re not big. The whole point is that the clear muscle did nothing, You didn’t put on 16 pounds of muscle or anywhere close to it. You didn’t lose 10 pounds of fat. You assume you think what other people know but you aren’t the only guy who knows how to read. Your gains are about on par with the Micro PA study and thats what you have been using thats effective.

You say you gained 12 pounds but you’re lucky if 2 of that is muscle. You gained more fat and water than muscle and anyone can see that in the picture. You just look like you have a pump with more fat. Anyway believe what you want, keep throwing money down the toilet on HMB-fa. Catabolism is caused and controlled by hormones not HM phucking B, The fraud supplement from the 90’s that M-tech dug out of the grave.

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]
Whatever dude you are a know it all, You gained a lot of fat and you’re not big. The whole point is that the clear muscle did nothing, You didn’t put on 16 pounds of muscle or anywhere close to it. You didn’t lose 10 pounds of fat. You assume you think what other people know but you aren’t the only guy who knows how to read. Your gains are about on par with the micro pa study and thats what you have been using thats effective. You say you gained 12 pounds but you’re lucky if 2 of that is muscle. You gained more fat and water than muscle and anyone can see that in the picture. You just look like you have a pump with more fat. Anyway believe what you want, keep throwing money down the toilet on HMB-fa. Catabolism is caused and controlled by hormones not HM phucking B, The fraud supplement from the 90’s that M-tech dug out of the grave.[/quote]

LOL. You talk a big talk but at the end of the day going by your fear of cortisol and your believe that somehow cortisol is the major factor in muscle wasting and fat gain, it seems like youâ??re just regurgitating muscle mag hot topics of the past.

Don’t get upset just because you’re clueless, it’s alright brah, not the end of the world :wink:

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]
Whatever dude you are a know it all, You gained a lot of fat and you’re not big. The whole point is that the clear muscle did nothing, You didn’t put on 16 pounds of muscle or anywhere close to it. You didn’t lose 10 pounds of fat. You assume you think what other people know but you aren’t the only guy who knows how to read. Your gains are about on par with the micro pa study and thats what you have been using thats effective. You say you gained 12 pounds but you’re lucky if 2 of that is muscle. You gained more fat and water than muscle and anyone can see that in the picture. You just look like you have a pump with more fat. Anyway believe what you want, keep throwing money down the toilet on HMB-fa. Catabolism is caused and controlled by hormones not HM phucking B, The fraud supplement from the 90’s that M-tech dug out of the grave.[/quote]

LOL. Man, your fear of cortisol, it’s obvious that your knowledge consists of popular mythos you have read over the years in muscle mags.

Oh well.

Against my better judgement, I also am trying HMB-FA and have been using it for the last couple of months. I’m still using it…but mostly to use up the bottles I purchased in a trial run. 3 grams/day in 3 divided doses. One of these doses is in conjunction with m-PA.

I do not notice anything significant. My weight didn’t change, my bodyfat didn’t change, my strength did not increase, etc, etc. Alas, it appears to be exactly like HMB-Calcium salt…at least for me. Maybe over a long period of time will I notice something (alas, 2 months might not be enough), but at its current price, HMB-FA is simply not worth it.

The science behind this stuff seems quite exciting, but the reality so far is far from the results presented in the study.

For me at least, HMB-FA is disappointing. I was hoping for so much more! I DO think it may be useful for beginners, but for advanced trainers, it disappointingly does not add anything special to the supplement arsenal. I so wish it did.

HMB-FA could also be very physiologically specific; i.e. some might realize much better results from it than others. I probably shouldn’t make a blanket statement that it is worthless…I should simply point out that it has thus far proven ineffective for me. A population of only one right now.

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
HMB-FA could also be very physiologically specific; i.e. some might realize much better results from it than others. I probably shouldn’t make a blanket statement that it is worthless…I should simply point out that it has thus far proven ineffective for me. A population of only one right now. [/quote]

It’s a tricky ingredient for sure. It’s highly dependent on if you even have any headroom left for work output. Directly, the stuff doesn’t actually make you grow or get stronger. Indirectly through the improved recovery.

So, theory behind it would be that you’re creating less protein breakdown because the stuff is inhibiting an enzyme responsible for protein breakdown, this leads to better/quicker recovery, which leads to you having more headroom for work. So there’s this work capacity headroom it just created but you still have to take advantage of that by actually putting in more work.

It’s one of those supplements that IMHO is highly individual because for it to work you actually have to put in more work, which runs counter to anabolics which positively augments the work you’re already putting in.

My gains came directly from diet and training. That was the anabolic stimulus, the HMB-FA basically prevented me from getting completely trashed from the training thus I didn’t have to deload (and actually ran a few increased training cycles) in the 12-weeks I was running the stuff.

But yeah, it’s one of those things that would seem counter-intuitive on the face of it (having to put in more work rather than getting more out of the same amount of work).