T Nation

Hit a Wall, Week 10 of 14, Any Input?


#1

Hello,

Week 10 of 14 of Test E only cycle in progress. Cycle is as follows

300mg TE every 4th day
200 iu HCG every other day (started last week)
60mg Raloxifene ED
1.25 mg Letro ED

Currently tapering off Letro and will pick up with Aromasin up until and a bit into PCT.

Here is my dilemma. I've hit a wall. My weight gain has been minimal, but that was intentional through diet and training. But strength has been going bananas. I'm throwing more weight than ever in my life.

One month ago to this day I scanned at 206lb, 8.7% bf. Today I scanned at 208lb, but 9.9% bf. So I lost 1 lb of muscle, gained 3 lb of fat. And feeling more tired during workouts.

So I'm thinking possible causes here, but would like any possible credible input to help me get back on track.

  1. most likely cause, overtraining. 6 days per week might be too much?
  2. body adapting to TE dose and not reacting the same way?
  3. been on letro over 6 weeks, may be killing me..LOL?
  4. introduction of HCG or Ralox over the past couple weeks?
  5. not enough sleep/rest (which kinda goes with #1)

My diet has remain unchanged around 4000cals per day, strict Paleo. I take lots of antioxidants, amino acids, daily vitamin/mineral support, and liver and organ support.

Should I try resting more and keeping on until my planned 14th week? Should I cut it short and begin PCT sooner? This is the longest cycle I've ever done. I usually only go 10 weeks.

Thanks for any insight.


#2

increase dose and or eat more food, get more sleep


#3

thats alot of letro lol alot, especially considering the testosterone dose is low


#4

[quote]TheTaskmaster wrote:
thats alot of letro lol alot, especially considering the testosterone dose is low[/quote]

I know. That’s why I’m tapering off it. I was running it at gyno reversal doses fir a while, with good success . Now it’s just tapping me out


#5

[quote]TheTaskmaster wrote:
thats alot of letro lol alot, especially considering the testosterone dose is low[/quote]

I know. That’s why I’m tapering off it. I was running it at gyno reversal doses fir a while, with good success . Now it’s just tapping me out


#6

I always find gains stall out at ten weeks. Not much point in cycling for longer IMO


#7

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I always find gains stall out at ten weeks. Not much point in cycling for longer IMO[/quote]

My reason Yogi…May sound silly, and please let me know if you think it is, because I like your advice…

I have a xfit competition in three weeks and I think if I get off now, my performance will slump by then. Not really even interested in gaining any more weight at this point.


#8

[quote]molonlabe1911 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I always find gains stall out at ten weeks. Not much point in cycling for longer IMO[/quote]

My reason Yogi…May sound silly, and please let me know if you think it is, because I like your advice…

I have a xfit competition in three weeks and I think if I get off now, my performance will slump by then. Not really even interested in gaining any more weight at this point. [/quote]

Yeah man if you have a competition in 3 weeks then I’d stay on, definitely.

You could add an oral in for the next three weeks. Usually that’ll get you gaining again. I’m not sure what oral would benefit a xfit competition though. Maybe halo.


#9

Halo would be great, if you can find the real deal but I wouldn’t try anything new before a competition. You should be tapering off your heavy training in a week or so anyways; I wouldn’t be looking for new gains. Hell, I would probably get off and lose some of that water weight beforehand.


#10

Thanks guys. I probably won’t be adding anything new in at this point. But I do need to rest more I’m sure of that.

I think my water weight is pretty low right now already due to the letro I’ve been on forever…lol, or so it feels. My scan today said I actually lost 1 lb of water since last month.

My total weight gain this cycle to date is 8lb. It’s gone up and down. At the heaviest 216 and today only 208 (if when I got over 210 I diet back down some). Starting weight was 200 even. But I’ve PR on every lift. FS at 365, clean at 300, C&J at 275. So over all I’m happy. Maybe just getting run down from over training.

I’ll go ahead and keep running as normal except ditch letro and switch to Aromasin. The Ralox seems to be finishing off any traces of gyno I still had.

I think tapering down the heavy training and resting more may be the answer.


#11

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I always find gains stall out at ten weeks. Not much point in cycling for longer IMO[/quote]

This x100!

I always tell people if they plan to run a cycle longer than 10 weeks they need to incorporate other compounds or they’ll just be wasting gear. Add an oral or a fast acting injectable. Maybe throw in 50mg Prop EOD on top of your current dose. I would personally just stop the cycle there and plan the next one to be much better. Trial and error bro. You’ll get’em next time lol.

edit: Just read comp details. Deff stay on. Idk what type of comp that is but if its strength based some Halo or Drol will deff assist you. And I’d stay on as well through the comp.

Chizeled


#12

Chizled… It’s Crossfit. Strength and metabolic demand. Don’t want to add anything that’ll slow me down or shorten my breath. My strength is solid enough. Just want to maintain it through comp.


#13

[quote]molonlabe1911 wrote:
Chizled… It’s Crossfit. Strength and metabolic demand. Don’t want to add anything that’ll slow me down or shorten my breath. My strength is solid enough. Just want to maintain it through comp.

[/quote]

Damn there’s competitions for that? I’m so out the loop lol. Going to look into it now but deff disregard the Drol comment cause of serious lethargy it tends to case in most users.


#14

[quote]Chizeled wrote:

[quote]molonlabe1911 wrote:
Chizled… It’s Crossfit. Strength and metabolic demand. Don’t want to add anything that’ll slow me down or shorten my breath. My strength is solid enough. Just want to maintain it through comp.

[/quote]

Damn there’s competitions for that? I’m so out the loop lol. Going to look into it now but deff disregard the Drol comment cause of serious lethargy it tends to case in most users. [/quote]

Yeah man, it’s actually becoming a big sport. Crossfit Games just passed last month, that’s the big show… $275K grand prize. Mine is local but has a $2000 prize. I just want to show up and crush it.

Really don’t need to gain much more. If it was tomorrow I’d be good. But it’s in three weeks so I need to maintain until then and figure out how I lost a pound of muscle then correct that issue. But most people I’ve asked say over training. I go 6 days a week, sometimes two a day.

I may just need to back that off and sleep more.


#15

I just saw some videos and that shit is insane. These guys have to be on some shit to enter this bro. It’s practically a strongman competition with an endurance twist to it. It seems pretty cool but just screams injury to me man. I’d seriously be careful cause I can see a lot of these guys having to use that money to hire a weekly practitioner.

Besides that everything that’s been stated above covered everything I can think of. On your next comp you should try adding EQ for the endurance boost and maybe some Deca for joint support as I can imagine they go through hell during these comps. I’ve always been interested on what type of compounds are ran by those in athletic fields so keep us updated on how your results turn out. Good luck man.

Chizeled


#16

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I always find gains stall out at ten weeks. Not much point in cycling for longer IMO[/quote]

yeah, i think they’ve said that has something to do with increased myostatin expression… around 8 weeks or so. i think i have an article saved somewhere around here…


#17

[quote]molonlabe1911 wrote:
Hello,

Week 10 of 14 of Test E only cycle in progress. Cycle is as follows

300mg TE every 4th day
200 iu HCG every other day (started last week)
60mg Raloxifene ED
1.25 mg Letro ED

Currently tapering off Letro and will pick up with Aromasin up until and a bit into PCT.

Here is my dilemma. I’ve hit a wall. My weight gain has been minimal, but that was intentional through diet and training. But strength has been going bananas. I’m throwing more weight than ever in my life.

One month ago to this day I scanned at 206lb, 8.7% bf. Today I scanned at 208lb, but 9.9% bf. So I lost 1 lb of muscle, gained 3 lb of fat. And feeling more tired during workouts.

So I’m thinking possible causes here, but would like any possible credible input to help me get back on track.

  1. most likely cause, overtraining. 6 days per week might be too much?
  2. body adapting to TE dose and not reacting the same way?
  3. been on letro over 6 weeks, may be killing me…LOL?
  4. introduction of HCG or Ralox over the past couple weeks?
  5. not enough sleep/rest (which kinda goes with #1)

My diet has remain unchanged around 4000cals per day, strict Paleo. I take lots of antioxidants, amino acids, daily vitamin/mineral support, and liver and organ support.

Should I try resting more and keeping on until my planned 14th week? Should I cut it short and begin PCT sooner? This is the longest cycle I’ve ever done. I usually only go 10 weeks.

Thanks for any insight.[/quote]

man, i can’t imagine the Ralox or HCG would make things worse. if nothing else, you would be producing a bit of test again, giving you more of a boost.

maybe the letro, or high volume/competition prep…

i don’t know if this is something you’d wanna try, but i mentioned this to Yogi in his thread about “priming for a cycle.” there’s a study out there where 2 grams of l-carnitine l-tartrate increased the androgen density/activity by 15% or so in 3 weeks… might be worth it to eek a bit more out of your cycle.


#18

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I always find gains stall out at ten weeks. Not much point in cycling for longer IMO[/quote]

yeah, i think they’ve said that has something to do with increased myostatin expression… around 8 weeks or so. i think i have an article saved somewhere around here…[/quote]

Yeah I’ve read the article, it certainly jives with my experience. Toggling orals keeps the gains going a bit but I find that 90% of my gains are in the first six weeks. That’s why I’ll always kickstart with an oral.


#19

Thanks dudes. Your advice is always quite helpful.

Lil mini update. Took a day off from gym, ate a cheat meal, slept 10 hours. Woke up 4# heavier…lol. Also I feel pretty good. Oh, and this is the third day of my letro taper off, down to 0.5 last night. I plan to be off it completely and swap to Aromasin by Sunday.


#20

In case anyone cares… Wanted to update on this. Over training was the culprit. I took three rest days last week, also made the switchfrom Letro to Aromasin.

Dominated my workout last Friday, and my scale says 217lb this morning… Was 208 the day of my OP last week.

Rest was key.

Thanks again all!