T Nation

Historic Test Results - Anything to Worry About?


#1

These are my historic tests. I started Testo-Pel back in September 2014 and have been on them trouble free since. I just switched to injections(waiting on script) mainly because I have never tried, pellets are getting expensive, and I’m tired of the recovery time post procedure.

The Dr prescribed 200mg/cc, inject 0.5cc SC every 3-4 days, return for labs in a month. Someone previously mentioned that this was too much, but I don’t know why. I see Dr Lipshultz in Houston and believe that his staff are knowledgeable in this, so I am not sure if I should question.

Questions-

  1. Is this too much, and why?
  2. Is there anything alarming in the labs? It seems the units for some tests like E2 are in different units than what the sticky posts reference.

    Thanks!

#2

Bump.


#3

I edited my response! sorry

.5 cc = 100mg every 3-4 days is too much. Many here do great on 100mg. I have never seen estradiol ranges being .5-5 Usually it is ranged about 7-42 and the sweet spot is 22. You being at 4, with a max range of 5 is like being at like 32 in a range of 7-42, if that makes sense. Or maybe just forget everything i just said about estradiol. Those ranges just seem really odd. Either way it seems like your estradiol is on the high end. So you are only on Test and no Anastrozole or HCG correct?


#4

Yes, only pellets. Doc says all the labs look good, but I’m having a hard time verifying the E2 considering the unit of measurement is different than what is usually mentioned in these posts. Also worth mentioning is that all the labs after Dec 11 test are done at the time of pellet insertions.

To be honest, I’m not sure what the benefit of HGH would be for me. I’m not worried about function as I am done having kids. Why is it recommended so strongly? Does it make you feel or perform different.

KJ.


#5

HGC, not HGH. I’m sure that was a typo. But anyway, Hcg would be used to keep fertility and to keep testicles from shrinking into basically nothing. You’ll still be able to perform but things would look different down there. Whether or not they will shrink to nothing, I’m not sure, but they will shrink some.


#6

E2 is only reported with one significant digit which is useless.
Try to get labs via Labcorp or Quest.

Please do not create another thread for your case, keep everything here. Need to not have your details lost and need to avoid duplication of effort.

Your pellets created differing T levels as expected and we can see E2 tracking that as expected, but the single digit reporting sucks.

Testing LH/FSH repeatedly on TRT is so brain dead, or your doctor is sucking you dry on lab charges. Testing FT and SHBG repeatedly is also stupid, they tell the same story.

Guys do great on 100mg T per week when E2 is managed near E2=22pg/ml. [You can’t work with your current lab.] Many on 200mg T simple cannot get balanced. With these goals you should get good consistent libido, mood, energy, fat loss and good fat patterns.

Be careful to not have blind trust in that doctor, too many red flags already.

TRT:

  • self inject 50mg T SC/SQ, not IM, with #29 1/2" 0.5ml insulin syringes
  • 0.5mg anastrozole at time of injections, see stickies for more info re over-responders
  • 250iu hCG SC EOD to preserve fertility and testes

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.


#7

Thanks for the help. You are probably right in the fact that my prior experience with Arimidex was likely too high a dose. I generally “feel” fine and don’t present the typical symptoms of high E2. I will be monitoring closely with the change in protocol though.

I questioned the PA that prescribed and he said they typically prescribe at 200mg per week. I read a lot of other sites that tend to agree with your assessment so I will start with .25cc of the 200mg/cc solution every 3.5 days and see how I feel and adjust after getting labs. Same for the E2.


#8

200mg/week has become a tragic fashion lately, used to see mostly with T-shops, but now some docs and PA’s. Ask where this is coming from? Drug reps? On-line resources?


#9

You are self injecting, correct? You got prescribed 200mg per week, that’s great. But only use 100mg per week and save the rest. I’m in the same boat.

If you want to do every other day injections then do .15ml every other day. Comes out to 105mg/wk. I found the EOD schedule to be much easier especially since I’m taking hcg EOD as well.


#10

Thanks, I came to the same conclusion, and since the co-pay is the same I figure I can stockpile for a rainy day.

What needles do most prefer? I have never self injected before. I am going to be doing subq; I think the doc was welling in 27g 1/2" for me. Been reading up and see there is a wide range from 25-31g and various needle lengths. Not to mention which type to go with, insulin or TB, removable or fixed? To many choices !


#11

I’ve been using 29g 1cc 1/2" insulin needles. You can get the .5 cc needles as well. You can get 100 packs online pretty cheap. No need to swap needles, draw and inject with same needle. If I’m drawing .15 ml out then I put .15ml air in. Fill needle with air, poke it in, push air into vial, turn upside down and start drawing out. It’s going to take a minute to draw out the test since it’s thick. Only put the needle about half way into the vial or as long as it’s not pressing up against the rubber, it might leak a little. You’ll see it slowly start coming out. It’s better to go slower so you don’t get a bunch of little air bubbles. There will always be a tiny air bubble in the end and it’s nothing to worry about.

Don’t forget to order some sharps containers, should run about $5 for the 1 qt containers. And of course some alcohol swabs and some cotton balls or pads for after. There shouldn’t be blood but I like to cover with cotton ball and rub the area after.

Always clean the rubber on the vials and injection site with alcohol and allow for the alcohol to dry.


#12

Curious, what do you do with the sharps after its full? Trash?


#13

No no. You dispose of them somewhere where they accept it. Personally I haven’t had to yet since I just started. I bought a 4 pack of sharps containers so my plan is to wait until almost all 4 are full and dispose of them properly. But definitely don’t toss in the trash.


#14

I guess my real question is what is “disposing them properly” when it pertains to sharps containers?


#15

DO follow your community guidelines for getting rid of your sharps disposal container. DO call your local trash or public health department (listed in the county and city government section of your phone book) to find out about sharps disposal programs in your area. if they know of sharps disposal programs near you.

or just google sharps container disposal


#16

I talked with my doctor and they said they typically prescribe 1500 units HCG per week, divided how I like. This is a lot higher that the 250 EOD I see here. Perhaps that is because they are prescribing high doses for people doing a complete restart after a cycle?

Also, where do you get your HCG? My insurance doesnt cover compound medications anymore so I have to go out of pocket 100%.


#17

hCG can be obtained from big pharma, not compounded

1500iu hCG: Too much, can easily create very high E2 from T–>E2 inside the testes and anastrozole cannot control that inside the testes.

Same doc that wants you to start at T=200mg/week.

Please understand what is suggested here and why and make up your own mind and be accepting of whatever the results are. You can always increase doses, but reducing later may feel off.


#18

So I did end up just telling them what to prescribe. 250iuHCG EOD and 1mg anastazole weekly(divided dose). Got HCG for about $75 for 11,000 iu.

To check my math, I mixed 11ml water to my 11,000iu and will inject .25ml every other day (250iu)?

So, I read that 250 iu is the right amount , but how does one verify? I imagine there is no test for that one, and more just a feeling.

Finally, latest labs. Even after I asked, they still only gave me E2 in single digit, didn’t run the ft3 like I asked, and also didn’t get free T😔. Either way, e2 is high and should be corrected once I get my AI started. Overall, I feel pretty good. Noticing more energy with less sleep(new baby) than when on Testopel. I have noticed I am a bit more moody, or quick to lose temper. Libido pretty good, morning erections occasionally. I imagine the AI will help with some of that.
Testosterone-1275 ng/dl Range 200 - 1000 ng/dl
Estradiol-7 ng/dl Range 1-5 ng/dl
TSH 1.81 UIU/ML Range 0.40 - 4.10 UIU/ML
FREE T4 1.29 NG/DL Range 0.80 - 1.90 NG/DL
SOMATOMEDIN-C 106 NG/ML. Range 68 - 202 NG/ML


#19

YES, or mix with 5.5ml water and inject .125

250iu hCG will maintain the testes, higher amounts=$$$ and risk problems. You are not trying to have hCG make T, injected T does that and is more cost effective. There is no verify unless you want to have fluid removed from your testes to check intratesticular testosterone levels. If E2 gets out of control, reduce hCG dose. Don’t question everything…


#20

Thanks, I have more questions about the AI dosing. Been reading a lot of history on this site, and see two general themes, take AI EOD (Mon,Wed,Fri) or take when you inject Test(twice weekly for me). Not sure which is better or if it really matters. The real question is how to get that small of a dose, accurately, from a 1mg tablet? Assuming the general goal is 1mg per week, EOD would be about a third of a tablet. I can’t seem to get my pill cutter to consistently make clean cuts since my tabs are not pre scored, much less further division into smaller doses.

I was actually thinking of starting lower at around .5mg per week to prevent a crash, and slowly adjust if needed. How do people make such small doses?