Hillary: All Washed Up?

So much for my free health insurance with it’s $10,000.00 deductible and 20% coverage.

Yeah, she’s done. The downhill slide is only accelerating.

[quote]JeffR wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
meangenes wrote:

Not so much? As in a little?

So there aren’t a large part of the public who aren’t basing their votes on the idea that they do or don’t want to see a black man in office? Right.

From the other thread, if they don’t vocally yell out that they hate the idea of a black president, then it isn’t happening.

What is the difference in voting for a black candidate because he is black, or not voting for him because he is black?

I hear no one bemoaning the fact the there are those who will silently be voting for Obama because of the color of his skin.

If you are going to start diving the thoughts of one side of the coin, you should do the same thing on the flipside.

Rainjack,

You’ve done it again!!! That was exactly what I was getting at with my most recent post. I was hoping to highlight his hypocrisy once again.

Now that he’s been warned, expect silence.

JeffR
[/quote]

I’ve been warned? First, Jeffy, you are by far the least informative or even cognitive person in these forums. No one, and I do mean no one, is cowering in a corner because of any posts you make. Please understand that and don’t forget.

As far as this topic, we live in a country that has NEVER seen a president of any other race or sex yet you all wonder why some people might vote on those terms? Do we really need to discuss under-representation again?

If things were truly equal, the race or sex of the individual would matter so little that we would have seen a woman or black person in office by now…but we have NOT. Why is that?

Therefore, in a world where every single solitary election has been won by a white guy, what pray fucking tell is the problem with wanting to FINALLY see one of those “minority” groups in office?

Further, like Orion stated, if the candidates are so alike, then why not use this election as the time to finally push that through?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
As far as this topic, we live in a country that has NEVER seen a president of any other race or sex yet you all wonder why some people might vote on those terms? Do we really need to discuss under-representation again?[/quote]

Show me where I ever said I wondered. I am just stating the fact that racism is not the one way street some on here like to think it is.

I can only speak for myself, and there has never been a woman worth voting for that has run. But I do vote for Kay Bailey Hutchinson (sp) every 6 years as my Senator.

I supported ALan Keyes 4 years ago. I would eat a mile of shit to see Walter Williams run and win the presidential nomination. I would vote for Clarence Thomas at the drop of a hat. But they, nor any black candidate similar in beliefs has even ran for President.

I would have to ask those that think we need a black/woman president just for the shits and giggles, if they would vote for the above mentioned people as readily as they think we should vote for Obama?

Who said there was anything wrong with it? What’s wrong with not wanting it?

Because I don’t think we need a token minority running the country just for the sake of having a token minority run the country. Obama will probably get as many “for” votes because he is black as he will “against” votes for the same reason.

I think the racism you conveniently ignore is no different than the racism you accuse others of ignoring.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
As far as this topic, we live in a country that has NEVER seen a president of any other race or sex yet you all wonder why some people might vote on those terms? Do we really need to discuss under-representation again?

Show me where I ever said I wondered. […] [/quote]

You’re JeffR?

[quote]lixy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
As far as this topic, we live in a country that has NEVER seen a president of any other race or sex yet you all wonder why some people might vote on those terms? Do we really need to discuss under-representation again?

Show me where I ever said I wondered. […]

You’re JeffR?[/quote]

He included my post. You’re a dixk?

[quote]nephorm wrote:
tedro wrote:
Bye-bye paycheck.

Isn’t that the truth.[/quote]

Yes, we are going to be paying off this GOD DAMN WAR for a long time.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
JeffR wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
meangenes wrote:

Not so much? As in a little?

So there aren’t a large part of the public who aren’t basing their votes on the idea that they do or don’t want to see a black man in office? Right.

From the other thread, if they don’t vocally yell out that they hate the idea of a black president, then it isn’t happening.

What is the difference in voting for a black candidate because he is black, or not voting for him because he is black?

I hear no one bemoaning the fact the there are those who will silently be voting for Obama because of the color of his skin.

If you are going to start diving the thoughts of one side of the coin, you should do the same thing on the flipside.

Rainjack,

You’ve done it again!!! That was exactly what I was getting at with my most recent post. I was hoping to highlight his hypocrisy once again.

Now that he’s been warned, expect silence.

JeffR

I’ve been warned? First, Jeffy, you are by far the least informative or even cognitive person in these forums. No one, and I do mean no one, is cowering in a corner because of any posts you make. Please understand that and don’t forget.

As far as this topic, we live in a country that has NEVER seen a president of any other race or sex yet you all wonder why some people might vote on those terms? Do we really need to discuss under-representation again?

If things were truly equal, the race or sex of the individual would matter so little that we would have seen a woman or black person in office by now…but we have NOT. Why is that?

Therefore, in a world where every single solitary election has been won by a white guy, what pray fucking tell is the problem with wanting to FINALLY see one of those “minority” groups in office?

Further, like Orion stated, if the candidates are so alike, then why not use this election as the time to finally push that through?[/quote]

pox,

We both know that I view your antipathy as a compliment. If you agreed with me on several core issues, I’d make sure to reevaluate my premises.

You proved me wrong, you spoke. I’m glad you did. Let me translate your post: racism (as in voting for obama due to skin color) is ok as long as you are a minority.

Got it!!!

HYPOCRITE.

Since you are in a soul-baring mood: Let me ask you directly, aren’t you just a LITTLE squeamish castigating others for racism while practicing it yourself?

You asked why a “minority” candidate hadn’t won. In your mind, it’s racism. However, in my opinion, the answer is more complicated than that. If we look at the minorities who failed in their bid for the Presidency, I think you’ll find some pretty compelling reasons (other than racism) that they lost.

Does racism exist? Of course. Does it play a part in voting patterns, yep.

What is so sad, is the length you go to excuse your own brand of racism.

JeffR

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
rainjack wrote:

I hear no one bemoaning the fact the there are those who will silently be voting for Obama because of the color of his skin.
[/quote]

Do you think that the same people who are voting for Obama would vote for Condoleeza Rice? I voted for Obama because I like his ideas and the fact that, whether naive or not, he gives some degree of hope. I would never vote for Condoleeza Rice, and I suspect most African Americans would not vote for her.

Unless you disagree with the above, I think that undermines your theory that people are voting for Obama just because of the color of his skin.

[quote]entheogens wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
rainjack wrote:

I hear no one bemoaning the fact the there are those who will silently be voting for Obama because of the color of his skin.

Do you think that the same people who are voting for Obama would vote for Condoleeza Rice? I voted for Obama because I like his ideas and the fact that, whether naive or not, he gives some degree of hope. I would never vote for Condoleeza Rice, and I suspect most African Americans would not vote for her.

Unless you disagree with the above, I think that undermines your theory that people are voting for Obama just because of the color of his skin.[/quote]

Of course they would vote for her. I have seen countless interviews and stories of black women that were torn whether to vote for Hillary, because she is a woman, or Obama because he is black.

No mention of policy. They admit freely they are deciding whether gender or skin color is the most important factor.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
As far as this topic, we live in a country that has NEVER seen a president of any other race or sex yet you all wonder why some people might vote on those terms? Do we really need to discuss under-representation again?

Show me where I ever said I wondered. I am just stating the fact that racism is not the one way street some on here like to think it is.

If things were truly equal, the race or sex of the individual would matter so little that we would have seen a woman or black person in office by now…but we have NOT. Why is that?

I can only speak for myself, and there has never been a woman worth voting for that has run. But I do vote for Kay Bailey Hutchinson (sp) every 6 years as my Senator.

I supported ALan Keyes 4 years ago. I would eat a mile of shit to see Walter Williams run and win the presidential nomination. I would vote for Clarence Thomas at the drop of a hat. But they, nor any black candidate similar in beliefs has even ran for President.

I would have to ask those that think we need a black/woman president just for the shits and giggles, if they would vote for the above mentioned people as readily as they think we should vote for Obama?

Therefore, in a world where every single solitary election has been won by a white guy, what pray fucking tell is the problem with wanting to FINALLY see one of those “minority” groups in office?

Who said there was anything wrong with it? What’s wrong with not wanting it?

Further, like Orion stated, if the candidates are so alike, then why not use this election as the time to finally push that through?

Because I don’t think we need a token minority running the country just for the sake of having a token minority run the country. Obama will probably get as many “for” votes because he is black as he will “against” votes for the same reason.

I think the racism you conveniently ignore is no different than the racism you accuse others of ignoring.

[/quote]

I very, VERY rarely let myself get into these discussions, but I couldn’t help commenting on the brilliance of this post. I would vote for Keyes, Williams or Thomas over any candidate that either party has run in the last 20 years… enthusiastically. Anybody concerned about having a black president for the sake of it better enjoy it while, no if they can if Obama wins because he will be the last one we see for at least a generation.

Why? Because he will be an absolute, unleashed, unmitigated CATASTROPHE on every level. Not because he’s black, but because he IS NOT A PRESIDENT. He’s an intelligent child with no idea whatever of what he is getting himself into. He will get us laughed or bombed off the international stage while simultaneously destroying what’s left of the economy thus ensuring that no black person will have a shot after him for the foreseeable future.

No point arguing. Fasten your belts. WE WILL SEE.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I have seen countless interviews and stories of black women that were torn whether to vote for Hillary, because she is a woman, or Obama because she is black. [/quote]

That was low…even for you.

[quote]entheogens wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
rainjack wrote:

I hear no one bemoaning the fact the there are those who will silently be voting for Obama because of the color of his skin.

Do you think that the same people who are voting for Obama would vote for Condoleeza Rice? I voted for Obama because I like his ideas and the fact that, whether naive or not, he gives some degree of hope. I would never vote for Condoleeza Rice, and I suspect most African Americans would not vote for her.

Unless you disagree with the above, I think that undermines your theory that people are voting for Obama just because of the color of his skin.[/quote]

It’s not my theory. Read the other posts. All I am saying is that voting for someone based on the color of their skin is just as racist as not voting for someone for the same reason.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I have seen countless interviews and stories of black women that were torn whether to vote for Hillary, because she is a woman, or Obama because she is black.

That was low…even for you.[/quote]

I just fixed it before I saw your post. Now I wish I hadn’t.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I have seen countless interviews and stories of black women that were torn whether to vote for Hillary, because she is a woman, or Obama because she is black.

That was low…even for you.

I just fixed it before I saw your post. Now I wish I hadn’t.[/quote]

Barack’s wife is not a woman? I really have to start paying more attention to shit.

[quote]entheogens wrote:

I hear no one bemoaning the fact the there are those who will silently be voting for Obama because of the color of his skin.

Unless you disagree with the above, I think that undermines your theory that people are voting for Obama just because of the color of his skin.[/quote]

I left the quote you referred to in the post.

When did I say “all” Obama supporters were voting for him because of his skin color?

Some certainly are - and the point is, isn’t it just as wrong to vote for someone based on their skin color as it is to vote against someone based on their skin color?

Either color matters - or it doesn’t.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
meangenes wrote:

Not so much? As in a little?

So there aren’t a large part of the public who aren’t basing their votes on the idea that they do or don’t want to see a black man in office? Right.

Think before you post. Say there is a large contingent of people who would not vote for someone because he is black.

And? Why would Obama change their minds? If they already have that racial bias in place, Obama’s candidacy isn’t going to change that or motivate them to change their minds.

There may be a large number of people who wouldn’t vote for a black candidate, there be a miniscule amount of people who wouldn’t vote for a black candidate - and Obama’s candidacy isn’t going to move that number of voters - whatever it is - around.[/quote]

Missing the point completely, you are presumably complicating this situation in defense of your infinitesimal competencies of race and partisan.

People are going to vote, more people than if the election was all white males. Unity.

[quote]rainjack wrote:

It’s not my theory. Read the other posts. All I am saying is that voting for someone based on the color of their skin is just as racist as not voting for someone for the same reason.[/quote]

Good stuff, RJ - voting for someone who is black because they are black is the same as not voting for someone who is white because they are white.

If you are faced with two candidates, and you wouldn’t vote for one of them based on their race, regardless of what race that is, it’s the same sin.

[quote]meangenes wrote:

Missing the point completely, you are presumably complicating this situation in defense of your infinitesimal competencies of race and partisan.[/quote]

Heh. Wow.

Even if true, “more people voting” doesn’t equal “unity”, especially if one of the sections that are trying ti be united all vote for the same person.

If Obama brings out more votes, that is fine - but that isn’t “Unity”. It’s just more votes.

Who exactly is Obama “unifying”? Left-liberal voters who were going to vote for him anyway? Not exactly a seismic paradigm shift - and certainly nothing in the way of “unifying” people who were otherwise not “together”.

Prodigy of Mobb Deep isn’t voting based on Race, so why should I?!

(Advance apologies to Thunder, Mick, Jeff, and the usuals).

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Prodigy of Mobb Deep isn’t voting based on Race, so why should I?!

(Advance apologies to Thunder, Mick, Jeff, and the usuals).[/quote]

No need to apologize to me - Mobb Deep looks like he has put some original thought into it, and I can respect that.

He’s making a good argument for a colorblind vote based on merit - he is ok with me, even if he is a Paulnut and probably hasn’t learned about Paul’s letters. ;>