Hill Sprinting vs Mile Run

[quote]LBramble wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]LBramble wrote:
Mr. Ed,

Whether you switch to hills, or continue distance, for your knee’s sake, make sure your running on GRASS.
NOT concrete
NOT Asphalt
NOT a synthetic track.

Your feet and knees evolved for 10 million years on dirt, grass, sand etc. They are designed for optimal use and optimal health on these surfaces. Pavement ain’t been around very long in the big picture. And if all you need to make running on pavement healthy is fancy ass $200 shoes, then why are all the college/pro baseball and football teams switching back to grass???

Because despite the fancy shoes, their biggest investment,their players, were dropping like flies due to knee and feet problems.

I haven’t found a good grass hill in my new home in Nashville, so i run 40’s on a nearby high school grass football field.
You may want to give flat sprints on grass a go, then try hills. Twenty 40’s is a decent workout if ya run’em all out.

Stay on the grass.

Your knees will thank you.

LB[/quote]
I really don’t think this is that big of a deal. Particularly if you are running up hill which already greatly reduces the amount of impact. Lots of people have been jogging on pavement for years with no problems.

I’ll agree grass is better, but I wouldn’t worry too much if there isn’t a good grass hill around.[/quote]

For me it is.
I use to box since my teens, got old, then coach’d kids, and when i coached i sparred which required stayin in shape. Miles and miles of early AM roadwork and evenings skipping rope took its toll. I was scheduled for knee miniscus surgery (in the fall 4 years ago) after an exam but asked my surgeon to wait till January because i had used all my medical pre-pay dollars that year. Came across an article talking about evolution, knee’s and ankles and pavement and shoes. I couldn’t just sit on my ass waitng for January so i found a softball field and started running circles around it in the grass. By January i had no pain at all. I had the knee’s re-scoped and the tears in both knees had healed themselves. And sparring was no longer painful, except for when i caught a good left hook.

I don’t do any running period on anything but grass.

I’ll guess and say your not in your mid 50’s yet. Yeah?

And i don’t do distance anymore period either for the same evolutionary reasoning.

Ask yourself, aside from being better than doing no exercise at all, where is the evolutionary advantage to running long distance slowly (i.e. jogging) or for that matter running a marathon at WR pace???
10,000 years ago you had to be fast enough to catch the deer you wounded, and fast enough to get away from the bear or tiger. Sprints have evolutionary function. As a man, ask yourself, would you rather look like the olympic winner of the marathon or the 100 metre’s. Or better yet go ask an 18 co-ed which one she thinks is hotter. Selection of the fittest.

Still think thats crap, go to a daycare and watch kids under 5 when they are free to play without rules. They do what comes natural. You NEVER see one running slowly around the playground. They will all run their tails off as fast as they can till they’re out of breath, stop, catch they’re breath, and do it all over again. Sprints. Just like a baby tiger that attacks it’s mother’s neck, or it’s brother’s neck when its playing. It ain’t by accident.
We don’t “learn” to jog until we get “old” cause its easy. And we ain’t got to physically survive like our great great great grandad’s did. But thats where are genes are from.

If you don’t think running on pavement is problem go see an orthopedic surgeon and ask him/her how’s business.

LB[/quote]
No I’m not > 50 and no I don’t run much anymore for many of the same reasons you gave (I’m not sure why you said all this, given my first post on this thread was pro-sprints). That being said, there is a theory that many human tribes hunted by running their prey until they were exhausted.

My dad is 62 and my step-mom is 59. Both run ~20 miles a week and have been running on pavement for > 30 years. So have many other people. It really isn’t that big of a deal.

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]LBramble wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]LBramble wrote:
Mr. Ed,

Whether you switch to hills, or continue distance, for your knee’s sake, make sure your running on GRASS.
NOT concrete
NOT Asphalt
NOT a synthetic track.

Your feet and knees evolved for 10 million years on dirt, grass, sand etc. They are designed for optimal use and optimal health on these surfaces. Pavement ain’t been around very long in the big picture. And if all you need to make running on pavement healthy is fancy ass $200 shoes, then why are all the college/pro baseball and football teams switching back to grass???

Because despite the fancy shoes, their biggest investment,their players, were dropping like flies due to knee and feet problems.

I haven’t found a good grass hill in my new home in Nashville, so i run 40’s on a nearby high school grass football field.
You may want to give flat sprints on grass a go, then try hills. Twenty 40’s is a decent workout if ya run’em all out.

Stay on the grass.

Your knees will thank you.

LB[/quote]
I really don’t think this is that big of a deal. Particularly if you are running up hill which already greatly reduces the amount of impact. Lots of people have been jogging on pavement for years with no problems.

I’ll agree grass is better, but I wouldn’t worry too much if there isn’t a good grass hill around.[/quote]

For me it is.
I use to box since my teens, got old, then coach’d kids, and when i coached i sparred which required stayin in shape. Miles and miles of early AM roadwork and evenings skipping rope took its toll. I was scheduled for knee miniscus surgery (in the fall 4 years ago) after an exam but asked my surgeon to wait till January because i had used all my medical pre-pay dollars that year. Came across an article talking about evolution, knee’s and ankles and pavement and shoes. I couldn’t just sit on my ass waitng for January so i found a softball field and started running circles around it in the grass. By January i had no pain at all. I had the knee’s re-scoped and the tears in both knees had healed themselves. And sparring was no longer painful, except for when i caught a good left hook.

I don’t do any running period on anything but grass.

I’ll guess and say your not in your mid 50’s yet. Yeah?

And i don’t do distance anymore period either for the same evolutionary reasoning.

Ask yourself, aside from being better than doing no exercise at all, where is the evolutionary advantage to running long distance slowly (i.e. jogging) or for that matter running a marathon at WR pace???
10,000 years ago you had to be fast enough to catch the deer you wounded, and fast enough to get away from the bear or tiger. Sprints have evolutionary function. As a man, ask yourself, would you rather look like the olympic winner of the marathon or the 100 metre’s. Or better yet go ask an 18 co-ed which one she thinks is hotter. Selection of the fittest.

Still think thats crap, go to a daycare and watch kids under 5 when they are free to play without rules. They do what comes natural. You NEVER see one running slowly around the playground. They will all run their tails off as fast as they can till they’re out of breath, stop, catch they’re breath, and do it all over again. Sprints. Just like a baby tiger that attacks it’s mother’s neck, or it’s brother’s neck when its playing. It ain’t by accident.
We don’t “learn” to jog until we get “old” cause its easy. And we ain’t got to physically survive like our great great great grandad’s did. But thats where are genes are from.

If you don’t think running on pavement is problem go see an orthopedic surgeon and ask him/her how’s business.

LB[/quote]
No I’m not > 50 and no I don’t run much anymore for many of the same reasons you gave (I’m not sure why you said all this, given my first post on this thread was pro-sprints). That being said, there is a theory that many human tribes hunted by running their prey until they were exhausted.

My dad is 62 and my step-mom is 59. Both run ~20 miles a week and have been running on pavement for > 30 years. So have many other people. It really isn’t that big of a deal.[/quote]

Harder surfaces equal more injuries. Good for your folks, but people are built differently and blanket statements like “Its not a big deal cause I know people that do it” simply dont work due to anatomical variance.

[quote]tveddy wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]LBramble wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]LBramble wrote:
Mr. Ed,

Whether you switch to hills, or continue distance, for your knee’s sake, make sure your running on GRASS.
NOT concrete
NOT Asphalt
NOT a synthetic track.

Your feet and knees evolved for 10 million years on dirt, grass, sand etc. They are designed for optimal use and optimal health on these surfaces. Pavement ain’t been around very long in the big picture. And if all you need to make running on pavement healthy is fancy ass $200 shoes, then why are all the college/pro baseball and football teams switching back to grass???

Because despite the fancy shoes, their biggest investment,their players, were dropping like flies due to knee and feet problems.

I haven’t found a good grass hill in my new home in Nashville, so i run 40’s on a nearby high school grass football field.
You may want to give flat sprints on grass a go, then try hills. Twenty 40’s is a decent workout if ya run’em all out.

Stay on the grass.

Your knees will thank you.

LB[/quote]
I really don’t think this is that big of a deal. Particularly if you are running up hill which already greatly reduces the amount of impact. Lots of people have been jogging on pavement for years with no problems.

I’ll agree grass is better, but I wouldn’t worry too much if there isn’t a good grass hill around.[/quote]

For me it is.
I use to box since my teens, got old, then coach’d kids, and when i coached i sparred which required stayin in shape. Miles and miles of early AM roadwork and evenings skipping rope took its toll. I was scheduled for knee miniscus surgery (in the fall 4 years ago) after an exam but asked my surgeon to wait till January because i had used all my medical pre-pay dollars that year. Came across an article talking about evolution, knee’s and ankles and pavement and shoes. I couldn’t just sit on my ass waitng for January so i found a softball field and started running circles around it in the grass. By January i had no pain at all. I had the knee’s re-scoped and the tears in both knees had healed themselves. And sparring was no longer painful, except for when i caught a good left hook.

I don’t do any running period on anything but grass.

I’ll guess and say your not in your mid 50’s yet. Yeah?

And i don’t do distance anymore period either for the same evolutionary reasoning.

Ask yourself, aside from being better than doing no exercise at all, where is the evolutionary advantage to running long distance slowly (i.e. jogging) or for that matter running a marathon at WR pace???
10,000 years ago you had to be fast enough to catch the deer you wounded, and fast enough to get away from the bear or tiger. Sprints have evolutionary function. As a man, ask yourself, would you rather look like the olympic winner of the marathon or the 100 metre’s. Or better yet go ask an 18 co-ed which one she thinks is hotter. Selection of the fittest.

Still think thats crap, go to a daycare and watch kids under 5 when they are free to play without rules. They do what comes natural. You NEVER see one running slowly around the playground. They will all run their tails off as fast as they can till they’re out of breath, stop, catch they’re breath, and do it all over again. Sprints. Just like a baby tiger that attacks it’s mother’s neck, or it’s brother’s neck when its playing. It ain’t by accident.
We don’t “learn” to jog until we get “old” cause its easy. And we ain’t got to physically survive like our great great great grandad’s did. But thats where are genes are from.

If you don’t think running on pavement is problem go see an orthopedic surgeon and ask him/her how’s business.

LB[/quote]
No I’m not > 50 and no I don’t run much anymore for many of the same reasons you gave (I’m not sure why you said all this, given my first post on this thread was pro-sprints). That being said, there is a theory that many human tribes hunted by running their prey until they were exhausted.

My dad is 62 and my step-mom is 59. Both run ~20 miles a week and have been running on pavement for > 30 years. So have many other people. It really isn’t that big of a deal.[/quote]

Harder surfaces equal more injuries. Good for your folks, but people are built differently and blanket statements like “Its not a big deal cause I know people that do it” simply dont work due to anatomical variance. [/quote]

Are you serious?!?

Did you read the part where I said grass is better?

Once again: lots of people have run on pavement for years/decades and been generally fine. Its not just people I know… its millions of runners.

Finally, pavement up a hill is going to be lower impact than a flat grass surface anyway.

I have an idea, why not just to the whole running in the pool thing. That is really low impact!

So I shall repeat my statement to the OP:
I really don’t think this is that big of a deal. Particularly if you are running up hill which already greatly reduces the amount of impact. Lots of people have been jogging on pavement for years with no problems.

I’ll agree grass is better, but I wouldn’t worry too much if there isn’t a good grass hill around.

^^you’re getting sucked into an argument for arguments sake.

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^you’re getting sucked into an argument for arguments sake.[/quote]
Indeed I am. Thanks for pointing that out.

I’ve stated what I thought and I’ll leave it at that.

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^you’re getting sucked into an argument for arguments sake.[/quote]
Indeed I am. Thanks for pointing that out.

I’ve stated what I thought and I’ll leave it at that.[/quote]

Indeed. Sorry chaps.

Hill sprints are lot less stressful on my knees. To answer the guy about why is it that all overweight ppl have kness problems, i had (osgood schlatters disease) in middle school from growing at a fast pace, which developed into tendonitis later in life. I played basketball for a solid 10 years on concrete, wood floors, anywhere there was a hoop. . Now Im 70lbs heavier and my knees are better than they was in my teens. So its not just overweight ppl.

I literally hadn’t run long distance for months leading up until yesterday, instead opting for sprints (longest at 100 yards), hill sprints, and sled work.

I ran a mile yesterday on a lark to see what I would run and ended up at 6:00 even without feeling winded in the slightest. I’ve run long distance before and been winded after only a few sprints.

Sprints > Long distance for conditioning IMO

I’m currently trail running once a week up a hill near my place. It’s 2.5 miles to the top with an elevation gain of 1000 feet. In recent years I’ve done different running schemes and though I’ve liked most of them (I do enjoy running), that hill run wipes me out the most AND I like it. The only thing I don’t like about it is that I have to run slower coming back down so I don’t jar my joints too much.

My treadmill to road ratio is 3 to 1. At 240lbs and a long training age I can’t take the beating of even the trails more than once a week.

[quote]barbarianlifter wrote:
Why not just do both to prevent your cardio days from getting too repetitive and boring?[/quote]

x2

So, what does a hillsprint routine look like? How many sprints? Frequency?

[quote]KcThrows wrote:
I can’t prove this or anything…but if you jog back down for recovery…I always ran down zig zag style. That way I wasn’t pounding my knees…worked for 4 years for me, just a thought. [/quote]

That is genious.

[quote]KcThrows wrote:
I can’t prove this or anything…but if you jog back down for recovery…I always ran down zig zag style. That way I wasn’t pounding my knees…worked for 4 years for me, just a thought. [/quote]

That is genious.

Can anyone recommend a good incline sprint program on a treadmill?

Trying to get myself conditioned now.

tabata sprints.