[quote]Karado wrote:<<< It’s a journey that I gotta see through alone, >>>[/quote]Please understand that I am not trying to be your pastor or your mama. You don’t even know me. I also have nothing to gain here personally. You won’t be in my church and we have no specific denominational hierarchy so I am not trying to make you a number. I would however be remiss in my responsibilities if I failed to emphasize that NOBODY can go it alone. The church, by which I do not mean Catholic, is called the “body” of Christ for a reason. We are His body. Each a member, dependent on the rest and they on him with Christ Himself being the head. The head does the thinking for the body. He does this through His Word and His Spirit IN and though His body. Cut your finger off and it will die. Please hear your own Voddie Baucham about this. Why Church Membership Matters | SermonAudio Please man. I don’t wanna sound condescending, but I’m lookin out for your own good. I hope you can believe me.[quote]Karado wrote:<<< I know I’m on the right path beginning this as I sacrificed practically all of my friends for it, and stopped drinking not long ago…It is proven time and time again massive immediate change is short-lived, >>>[/quote] This can be true, but it works both ways which is why I said God doesn’t deal with everybody the same. Some of Jesus own family didn’t believe Him until after the resurrection. Peter was still messin up even after the fall of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost where he himself gave an awesome and glorious sermon. Paul had to straighten him out as is recorded in Galatians 2. Speaking of Paul though, he was was radically transformed from a Christian killing pharisee into a mighty apostle literally overnight.[quote]Karado wrote:<<< It took me a LONG time to even make the decision because of what it would entail, Do I like it? Not really, I lost some old friends, and I had quite a few of ‘em, so now I’m dealin’ with it Man, ‘know what I mean? >>>[/quote] Indeed I DO know what you mean. My time in these forums is a perfect example. I joined here just as God was bringing me out of a long season of backsliding. I was once one of the most well known and respected members here. EVERYBODY knew me and I liked it that way. As the Lord drew me and continues to draw me closer, there’s barely a handful who can even stand me anymore. Many of the ones who claim to be Christians, not surprisingly if you know your bible, are the ones who can stand me the least. They are all lone rangers with no church and who dishonor God around here far more than the atheists do. I “liked it” better when everybody liked me, but it has to be like this. He who would seek to please men cannot please God. [quote]Karado wrote:<<< I also want to be certain whatever I FEEL sometimes is real, and not just
endorphins making me feel good, because with all due respect people in CULTS have that
same ‘feeling’ and ‘commitment’ too, does that make sense? >>>[/quote] Yes it does. At the risk of sounding the wrong way, I know more about cults than everybody on this site combined times ten.[quote]Karado wrote:<<< Maybe one or two answered prayers, a small request in something I NEED (not want) at the moment would reassure me…IDK, it’s too complex to explain, you wouldn’t understand now, >>>[/quote] I DO understand now, but you,re making it more complex than it needs to be. Honest you are. Obedience is EVERYTHING. Do what you KNOW to do now, however small, and He will draw near to you more and more. I absolutely promise you that. I really believe the next step for you is finding somewhere to fellowship. Other members of His body, YOUR body, will nourish you and make you grow strong. In doing so for you they will also grow stronger. Eventually, and not as long as you may think, God will send one of His babies for YOU to feed and THEN you will know satisfaction and joy, like you never thought possible.[quote]Karado wrote:<<< just put in a good word for me, >>>[/quote]of course. From now on. I’ll give you to our intercession team as well which is led by a women named Deborah who can singlehandedly strike terror into all the legions of hell. [quote]Karado wrote:<<< and I’ll put in one for you, >>>[/quote] I will certainly appreciate and receive that. [quote]Karado wrote:<<< putting this serious prayer request to the test once again… how’s that? >>>[/quote] I do know what you mean and so does He far better, but be careful about testing God. He has very creative ways of passing.[quote]Karado wrote:<<< Be well, I’ll be goin’ on the road soon, and may return soon here again maybe after
the Holidays…maybe. >>>[/quote]Are you a truck drive or something? Use that email address any time for any reason.
How’s this for a hijack…
I find it extremely ironic that the same people who are against abortion because it’s murder (which technically it is) are also the same ones praising Israel for their attacks against Palestine even though that’s also murder. Seems to me that murder is murder regardless.
james
[quote]JEATON wrote:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]JEATON wrote:
Unlike Aragon, I do think you practice a form of " al la cart" Christianity.
I think you take most of your talking points from John Calvin, who I happen to think was an evil, despicable, mass murderer who deserves a special place in hell. Lets go briefly through his teachings, shall we?[/quote]
Agreed. I’ll throw in Thomas Jefferson’s opinion of Calvinism, not because he is a religious scholar, but because I don’t think I can say it better:
I can never join Calvin in addressing his god… his religion was D[ae]monism. If ever man worshipped a false god, he did. The being described in his 5 points is not the God whom you [meaning John Adams] and I acknowledge and adore, the Creator and benevolent governor of the world; but a d[ae]mon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no god at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes of Calvin.
Yep. I used to more ambivalent to the doctrine of Calvinism. Now, thanks to Tiribulus and a few others I’ve come across like him, I’ve moved pretty well into the Jeffersonian opinion.[/quote]
Thank you for this information. It seems Jefferson summed up my feelings towards Calvin better than I could myself. I believe to love Calvin is to hate God (or at least my God).[/quote]REALLY? Come on guys. Jefferson a theologian now? LOL!!! If ever a pagan walked God’s earth it was Thomas Jefferson. The rankest of God hating hypocrites, but a sound pragmatist nonetheless.
55 delegates to the first constitutional convention.
49 self described protestants.
2 self described Catholics
A smattering of outright heathens including Jefferson.
Of the 49 protestants, 39 were church of England. Then governed by the thoroughly “Calvinistic” 39 articles which can be found here The 39 Articles of Religion (1562)
8 Presbyterians and 2 Dutch reformed who would have held to my very own Westminster standards, including my oft quoted confession found here. 301 redirect
7 congregationalists who could have been either Calvinists or Arminians.
2 Lutherans. Who were far closer to “Calvinistic” theology than anybody else’s. On the Bondage of the Will - Wikipedia Great book btw.
And 2 Methodists who were definitely Arminians.
It makes no difference if they were true converts or totally nominal hypocrites. The truth I’m sure is that there were some of both. If they were Freemasons or even secret witches, blah, blah, blah, blah. Who cares? What matters is that 47 of the 55 delegates to the convention that saw the ratification of our constitution openly identified themselves with unambiguously “Calvinistic” communions with absolutely none of the problems that you guys seem to be having. This is not about John Calvin btw. Not for me. Augustine taught Calvin’s soteriology 1100 years earlier and Calvin gave him credit by name. Paul taught it before Augustine. If Aquinas could have kept his face out of Aristotle’s buttocks he might even wound up there too.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
REALLY? Come on guys. Jefferson a theologian now? LOL!!! If ever a pagan walked God’s earth it was Thomas Jefferson. The rankest of God hating hypocrites, but a sound pragmatist nonetheless. [/quote]
Smart people call that an ad hominem. Jefferson may have been a pagan (he wasn’t, but alas), but that doesn’t discredit his point on Calvin, which was an opinion, and one that a number of his contemporaries shared (John Adams included).
[quote]55 delegates to the first constitutional convention.
49 self described protestants.
2 self described Catholics
A smattering of outright heathens including Jefferson.
Of the 49 protestants, 39 were church of England. Then governed by the thoroughly “Calvinistic” 39 articles which can be found here The 39 Articles of Religion (1562)
[/quote]
Nope - the Church of England types weren’t dyed-in-the-wool Calvinists nor did they adhere to any kind of Calvinist doctrine. They wrote about this - and of course, the ultimate expression of their rejection of, say, the TULIP nonsense of Calvisnists is their belief in a republican form of government and a Constitution that included a First Amendment and an express prohibition of religious tests for office, which has no place if Calvinism was the ironclad way of thinking at the Founding. This has been demonstrated to you, and you’ve never once provided an explanation. Instead, you just hit “repeat” on the same wrong argument.
[quote]8 Presbyterians and 2 Dutch reformed who would have held to my very own Westminster standards, including my oft quoted confession found here. 301 redirect
7 congregationalists who could have been either Calvinists or Arminians.
2 Lutherans. Who were far closer to “Calvinistic” theology than anybody else’s. On the Bondage of the Will - Wikipedia Great book btw.
And 2 Methodists who were definitely Arminians.[/quote]
See above. Calvinists have this weird fascination of ascribing nearly every Protestant denomination as “Calvinistic” so they can claim connection to them. It’s not true, but you can’t convince a Calvinist of that.
Anyone interested in an honest intellectual history does, because their affiliation with such distinctly non-Calvinistic philosophies, etc. lays waste to the idea that they were all “Calvinistic!”. They couldn’t be - as you’ve demonstrated in probably thousands of posts now, you believe there is no “mushy middle ground” - you can’t be a Calvinist and, say, a Freemason. Well, by your own admission, they are either Calvinists or Great Betrayers(!).
Now, the rest of us think that is silly, but you are in a box - and you don’t have the luxury of appreciating the mix of influences on the Founder and accordingly there distinctly non-Calvinistic philosophy.
The Founders had a number of influences in their thinking that would have Calvinists out in the streets wearing sandwich-boards and proclaiming the Founders were all blaspheming devils. Madison was strongly influenced by David Hume, noted non-Calvinist, for example.
But they weren’t. George Washington was a quiet Anglican and a Freemason, and he’d have as much use for TULIP(!) as I do, or Jefferson did.
What the Founders realized were the inherent flaws of man, and the need for checks and balances because of that “crooked timber” nature of Man. That is a far cry from Total Depravity, which the Founders did not adhere to, no matter how much modern Calvinists desperately want that to be true.
The Founders thought Man a combustible mix of good and evil, and not just evil. Madison even remarked on the idea of a “degree of depravity,” in the Federalist, and stated:
As there is a degree of depravity in mankind which requires a certain degree of circumspection and distrust: So there are other qualities in human nature, which justify a certain portion of esteem and confidence. Republican government presupposes the existence of these qualities in a higher degree than any other form.
Federalist 55. In other words, the opposite of Calvinist dogma. And the Founders agreed.
That, of course, is why they thought a constitutional republic might just work - the citizens were good enough to self-govern, as long as there were institutional checks against their inherent wickedness.
Your Calvinist color-by-numbers revisionism is false, and so you’d do well to stop peddling it.
Unbelievable. To quote KingKai, who DOES get this Catholic Q&A Continues - Politics and World Issues - Forums - T Nation [quote]Cortes, while YOUR argument is doing that, the above quoted portion of Brother Chris’ statements do not. I’m not talking about YOUR argument yet; I’m talking about these illegitimate appeals to illegitimate authorities that Brother Chris makes. Protestants who love Calvin value his SOTERIOLOGICAL schema primarily, not his views on the Real Presence or anything else. They have no problem “cherry picking” when it comes to Calvin’s beliefs. Brother Chris’ argument seems to presuppose that Protestants like Tirib elevate Calvin the way Catholics elevate the church fathers, despite the fact that Tirib has said a MILLION times that he doesn’t agree with everything Calvin said. So why Brother Chris feels like saying, “Calvin would agree with me” is a good argument is entirely beyond me. [/quote] Speaking to Aragorn’s misplaced compliment, much as I appreciate it, I DO cherry pick from EVERYBODY, including Calvin AND the Westminster divines and their tremendous documents. I don’t believe EVERYthing ANYbody says. Except God and I’m sure I’ll find out from Him that I had some stuff wrong too. This side of the resurrection everybody does.
You may want to click on the link to the 39 articles of the Church of England. Or not actually. There is predestination, election, total depravity etc. The exception is limited atonement which Calvin himself is tough to pin on. The 5 points were codified at the synod of Dort, 1618-1619. Decades after Calvin’s death. Not by John Calvin. There are too many more misunderstandings, misrepresentations and missed points to get to until later. I have legs in a little while. I do not rise or fall with Calvin. I have no Pope. I just don’t know how else to say it anymore.
From the “Bob Costas and the 2nd Amendment” thread.
[quote]pushharder wrote:<<< the Tiribs of this world wring their hands and whine about futility. >>>[/quote]Wring their hands he says!!! LOL!!! Whine he says!!! LOL!!! FUTILITY he says!!! LOL!!! You have me woefully confused with somebody who was not rejoicing in the fact of having the Lord of the Universe as their Father. As usual the bible has zero influence on how you live your life. You do however have another new godless author to exalt above the scriptures. Right on schedule. Now you’re willing to add insurrection and murder to flagrant immorality on your list of crimes against the throne of the most high God and then turn around and defend the Genesis creation account as if that makes you a Christian? Repent, surrender that hard heart to His majesty, forsake your idols and live. Thunderbolt ain’t much better so don’t you go off on how I’m taking his side.
You two are having a great discussion there, but YOU brought my name up again. Carry on.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Thunderbolt ain’t much better so don’t you go off on how I’m taking his side.
You two are having a great discussion there, but YOU brought my name up again. Carry on.[/quote]
I didn’t bring up your name in that thread, so don’t bother bringing mine up, either. I don’t have an interest in what you have to say. Thanks in advance.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Thunderbolt ain’t much better so don’t you go off on how I’m taking his side.
You two are having a great discussion there, but YOU brought my name up again. Carry on.[/quote]I didn’t bring up your name in that thread, >>>[/quote]You do claim to be a Christian though which burdens me with responsibilities clearly spelled out in the bible. Until God calls me elsewhere or they throw me outta here I will be faithful to His word in these forums.[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:<<< so don’t bother bringing mine up, either. >>>[/quote]A promise I cannot make, but I will not go outta my way to be on your case. You really do regret that a valiantly persistent TheRajRaj finally pried outta you your very fatal and telling anti Christian view of homosexuality don’t you? You gave it your all, but I’ll give Raj credit. He cornered you but good. http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/marriage_is_not_about_two_people_loving_each_other?id=5136322&pageNo=3 Nobody has to strangle me to learn my view about ANYTHING. [quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:<<< I don’t have an interest in what you have to say. Thanks in advance.[/quote]Well, in some areas I will remain very much interested in what you have to say.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
A promise I cannot make, but I will not go outta my way to be on your case.[/quote]
You aren’t on my case. I’ve had coffee that has had a stronger impact on me than you have.
No, not really - I simply avoid religious debates on here and typically like to stick to public policy debates. My view on homosexuality personally isn’t something that adds to that debate, which was about gay marriage. Rajraj’s question was one about personaly religious views, which I avoid generally, but not because I worry what other people think about them.
That’s your problem and complete lack of common sense and social aptitude, not mine.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:<<< My view on homosexuality personally >>>[/quote]And there’s your trouble. Christians don’t have “personal views” on things the scriptures are clear and definitive about. My impact on you or anybody else is neither my problem nor my goal. Obedience is.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
And there’s your trouble. Christians don’t have “personal views” on things the scriptures are clear and definitive about. My impact on you or anybody else is neither my problem nor my goal. Obedience is.[/quote]
Ok, super. If your impact “on me or anybody else” is not a goal of yours, which means your goal isn’t to change anyone’s mind, then silence is the better option.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:And there’s your trouble. Christians don’t have “personal views” on things the scriptures are clear and definitive about. My impact on you or anybody else is neither my problem nor my goal. Obedience is.[/quote]Ok, super. If your impact “on me or anybody else” is not a goal of yours, which means your goal isn’t to change anyone’s mind, then silence is the better option. [/quote]Nonsense Guvnuh. Allow me to rephrase. My impact on you or anybody else is not my driving concern. Obedience to my Lord IS my driving concern. My beloved brother, the mighty prophet Jeremiah (I am no prophet) preached to the whoring nation of Israel for 40 years and almost nobody listened. He wound up sobbing watching his Jerusalem burn. He was declared a complete raving success for his having unflinchingly obeyed the voice of the Lord his God. That’s what you’re sorely missing my friend because “you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God” (Mark 12:24) You attend an apostate powerless temple of autonomous idolatry where the delusional corruption of man is exalted above He who from the beginning was Himself both the Word and Creator. I’ll say again. Believe what you want. But your “personal” views are an affront to the true and living God and you and your church’s claim on His name will bring you judgement far exceeding that of the God hating atheists if persisted in. These forums are REALLY beautiful. They are a real life object lesson in biblical truth. I read, look here and there it is. In living color. Exactly as God says it will be. There is indeed nothing new under the sun. Those claiming His name are the most blasphemous of all.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
That’s what you’re sorely missing my friend…[/quote]
We aren’t friends. Have a great day.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:That’s what you’re sorely missing my friend…[/quote]We aren’t friends. >>>[/quote]I take no joy in the fact that it doesn’t appear so. 1st Corinthians 5 right before our eyes. [quote]Tiribulus wrote:<<< Have a great day.[/quote]I don’t have any other kind. The greatness of my day depends exclusively on the greatness of my God. Not the circumstances of my life.
“Nobody has to strangle me to learn my view about ANYTHING.”
In related news - I wish someone would strangle you so we didn’t have to listen to your view about ANYTHING.
[quote]Revo09 wrote:
“Nobody has to strangle me to learn my view about ANYTHING.”
In related news - I wish someone would strangle you so we didn’t have to listen to your view about ANYTHING.[/quote]I honestly don’t mean this a jab man, but I really got a belly laugh outta this. Perfect end to my day LOL!!! I certainly would wish no ill upon you bud.
Ya’ll may be in for some real drama. Don’t ask for now. We’ll see. If so, it will answer some questions some have asked. Too bad Oleena’s not around.
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:In regard to man being made in Gods image is this meant to be physical or some kind of spiritual image?[/quote]The very short version version in my view is that God directly breathed into man the breath of life thereby enlivening man in a unique manner among His creation. It is not physical. It is high intellectual capacity, advanced capability of communication, (written and oral) and accountable moral agency, all of which equips man to exercise dominion over the earth on God’s behalf. I believe that man AND woman together complete this image.
Man and woman are equally precious in the heart of God and His designing and commissioning them to differing roles in His created order is not to be received as one being superior over the other. This created order was disastrously upset by the introduction of the corruption of sin and is now being restored in Christ, the last Adam (1 Corinthians 15) Looooong story.
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
How’s this for a hijack…
I find it extremely ironic that the same people who are against abortion because it’s murder (which technically it is) are also the same ones praising Israel for their attacks against Palestine even though that’s also murder. Seems to me that murder is murder regardless.
james [/quote]
I don’t necessarily disagree with your premise James, but there’s a big difference between murdering an unborn (defenseless) child and killing your enemies in battle. I don’t know exactly what you are referring to when you say “attacks against Palestine” so perhaps it is murder, but if it’s in defense (my guess) then well I don’t see it as murder at all.
For me personally (I’m against abortion) killing, or murder if you prefer the term, can be justified in a number of situations (Israeli Palestinian conflict possibly being one of them); however, the murder of a defenseless person (abortion) is not one of them.
This is why one can be against abortion and for the death penalty.
Edit: Wow that’s an old post, oh well.
What are the explanations given for the similarities in bible stories and early pre-christian myths i.e. great floods, creation, and Christ rising?