Hijack Haven

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I almost included a preemptive strike against just such a line of thought as obviously I know that many strides are made building on the groundwork laid by others, but nevermind. Not the point anyway. The relative point we occupy on the scale is irrelevant to my line of discussion. Greatness will do fine.[/quote]

No problem ,we can discount that particular line. But you were the one that stated ‘the greatest’ if memory serves. There is no doubt that the US is amongst the greatest empires seen on the planet, I’m not disputing that at all. And possibly one of the most benevolent as well. Juts all the ra ra hyperbole was a bit much for my taste, but I’m still willing to read other trains of thought you have on that assertion to back it up.
If not , what is the other line of discussion? The Christian angle? (Big C)

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I almost included a preemptive strike against just such a line of thought as obviously I know that many strides are made building on the groundwork laid by others, but nevermind. Not the point anyway. The relative point we occupy on the scale is irrelevant to my line of discussion. Greatness will do fine.[/quote]

No problem ,we can discount that particular line. But you were the one that stated ‘the greatest’ if memory serves. There is no doubt that the US is amongst the greatest empires seen on the planet, I’m not disputing that at all. And possibly one of the most benevolent as well. Juts all the ra ra hyperbole was a bit much for my taste, but I’m still willing to read other trains of thought you have on that assertion to back it up.
If not , what is the other line of discussion? The Christian angle? (Big C)[/quote]That’s not an angle. That’s the foundation. While it was there we soared. Now that it’s gone? We’re dying. Yes at bottom it is just that simple. Everything else is a symptom.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I almost included a preemptive strike against just such a line of thought as obviously I know that many strides are made building on the groundwork laid by others, but nevermind. Not the point anyway. The relative point we occupy on the scale is irrelevant to my line of discussion. Greatness will do fine.[/quote]

No problem ,we can discount that particular line. But you were the one that stated ‘the greatest’ if memory serves. There is no doubt that the US is amongst the greatest empires seen on the planet, I’m not disputing that at all. And possibly one of the most benevolent as well. Juts all the ra ra hyperbole was a bit much for my taste, but I’m still willing to read other trains of thought you have on that assertion to back it up.
If not , what is the other line of discussion? The Christian angle? (Big C)[/quote]That’s not an angle. That’s the foundation. While it was there we soared. Now that it’s gone? We’re dying. Yes at bottom it is just that simple. Everything else is a symptom.
[/quote]

The Egyptians soared…and sunk . The Chinese empires soared…and sunk. The Macedonians. Persian. And countless other massive empires. Many before and after Christianity. There are patterns and similarities in the rise and fall of all of them. Most implosions are financial…

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:<<< Most implosions are financial…[/quote]In our case it’s a symptom.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:<<< Most implosions are financial…[/quote]In our case it’s a symptom.
[/quote]

Same can be said for all the other financial implosions. Come on, don’t just cherry pick my quote there, give me a bit of meat to work with. What separates the US implosion (that you predict is imminent, I’m on the fence on that point) from all the other empire collapses that have gone before?

[quote]ZEB wrote:<<< More sales are made by the potential buyer liking the sales person than by the buyer disliking the sales person.
Think about it my friend.[/quote]Read the 1st chapter of 1st Corinthians ZEB. You have a point about hijacking threads. I don’t do it any more than anyone else anymore though I do still try to be careful. Maybe I need to try harder.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:<<< Most implosions are financial…[/quote]In our case it’s a symptom.
[/quote]

A country built on the premise that each person’s goal should be personal freedom and happiness can’t survive long as some humble meek christian schmoo waiting to be eaten.

Unselfishness and selfishness can’t exist for long in a man or in a country. “A house divided against itself cannot stand.”

Come on man. When are ya comin to church with me? You can tell all the poor idiot Christians there how stupid and weak they are. Think of what fun that would be. All of His elect WILL come home. I really hope you are one. You would have one tremendous testimony of deliverance from death into the life His dear Son. The God I know who delights in saving people just like you would be mightily glorified by your proclamation of His truth. Oh how I long for that day.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:This only confirms my belief that RELIGION is the root of all evil and is the primary source of much of the suffering on our planet.[/quote]Lemme know if you need some more.[quote]George Washington
1st U.S. President

“While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian.”
–The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.

John Adams
2nd U.S. President and Signer of the Declaration of Independence

“Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God … What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be.”
–Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9.

"The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.

“Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System.”
–Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, excerpt from a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

“The second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary Festival. It ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forever.”
–Adams wrote this in a letter to his wife, Abigail, on July 3, 1776.

Thomas Jefferson
3rd U.S. President, Drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event.”
Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.

John Hancock
1st Signer of the Declaration of Independence

“Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. … Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us.”
–History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.

Samuel Adams
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Father of the American Revolution

“And as it is our duty to extend our wishes to the happiness of the great family of man, I conceive that we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world that the rod of tyrants may be broken to pieces, and the oppressed made free again; that wars may cease in all the earth, and that the confusions that are and have been among nations may be overruled by promoting and speedily bringing on that holy and happy period when the kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and all people everywhere willingly bow to the sceptre of Him who is Prince of Peace.”
–As Governor of Massachusetts, Proclamation of a Day of Fast, March 20, 1797.

James Monroe
5th U.S. President

“When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgments for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good.”
2nd Annual Message to Congress, November 16, 1818.

John Quincy Adams
6th U.S. President

“The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of the Bible proceed and prosper till the Lord shall have made ‘bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God’ (Isaiah 52:10).”
Life of John Quincy Adams, p. 248

William Penn
Founder of Pennsylvania

“I do declare to the whole world that we believe the Scriptures to contain a declaration of the mind and will of God in and to those ages in which they were written; being given forth by the Holy Ghost moving in the hearts of holy men of God; that they ought also to be read, believed, and fulfilled in our day; being used for reproof and instruction, that the man of God may be perfect. They are a declaration and testimony of heavenly things themselves, and, as such, we carry a high respect for them. We accept them as the words of God Himself.”
–Treatise of the Religion of the Quakers, p. 355.

Roger Sherman
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and United States Constitution

"I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same in substance equal in power and glory. That the scriptures of the old and new testaments are a revelation from God, and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him. That God has foreordained whatsoever comes to pass, so as thereby he is not the author or approver of sin. That he creates all things, and preserves and governs all creatures and all their actions, in a manner perfectly consistent with the freedom of will in moral agents, and the usefulness of means. That he made man at first perfectly holy, that the first man sinned, and as he was the public head of his posterity, they all became sinners in consequence of his first transgression, are wholly indisposed to that which is good and inclined to evil, and on account of sin are liable to all the miseries of this life, to death, and to the pains of hell forever.

"I believe that God having elected some of mankind to eternal life, did send his own Son to become man, die in the room and stead of sinners and thus to lay a foundation for the offer of pardon and salvation to all mankind, so as all may be saved who are willing to accept the gospel offer: also by his special grace and spirit, to regenerate, sanctify and enable to persevere in holiness, all who shall be saved; and to procure in consequence of their repentance and faith in himself their justification by virtue of his atonement as the only meritorious cause.

"I believe a visible church to be a congregation of those who make a credible profession of their faith in Christ, and obedience to him, joined by the bond of the covenant.

“I believe that the souls of believers are at their death made perfectly holy, and immediately taken to glory: that at the end of this world there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a final judgement of all mankind, when the righteous shall be publicly acquitted by Christ the Judge and admitted to everlasting life and glory, and the wicked be sentenced to everlasting punishment.”
The Life of Roger Sherman, pp. 272-273.

Benjamin Rush
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution

“The gospel of Jesus Christ prescribes the wisest rules for just conduct in every situation of life. Happy they who are enabled to obey them in all situations!”
–The Autobiography of Benjamin Rush, pp. 165-166.

“Christianity is the only true and perfect religion, and that in proportion as mankind adopts its principles and obeys its precepts, they will be wise and happy.”
–Essays, Literary, Moral, and Philosophical, published in 1798.

"I know there is an objection among many people to teaching children doctrines of any kind, because they are liable to be controverted. But let us not be wiser than our Maker.

“If moral precepts alone could have reformed mankind, the mission of the Son of God into all the world would have been unnecessary. The perfect morality of the gospel rests upon the doctrine which, though often controverted has never been refuted: I mean the vicarious life and death of the Son of God.”
–Essays, Literary, Moral, and Philosophical, published in 1798.

John Witherspoon
Signer of the Declaration of Independence, Clergyman and President of Princeton University AND ancestor of Reese Witherspoon

"While we give praise to God, the Supreme Disposer of all events, for His interposition on our behalf, let us guard against the dangerous error of trusting in, or boasting of, an arm of flesh … If your cause is just, if your principles are pure, and if your conduct is prudent, you need not fear the multitude of opposing hosts.

"What follows from this? That he is the best friend to American liberty, who is most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion, and who sets himself with the greatest firmness to bear down profanity and immorality of every kind.

“Whoever is an avowed enemy of God, I scruple not to call him an enemy of his country.”
Sermon at Princeton University, “The Dominion of Providence over the Passions of Men,” May 17, 1776.

Patrick Henry
Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution

“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
–The Trumpet Voice of Freedom: Patrick Henry of Virginia, p. iii.

“The Bible … is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed.”
Sketches of the Life and Character of Patrick Henry, p. 402.

John Jay
1st Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court and President of the American Bible Society

"By conveying the Bible to people thus circumstanced, we certainly do them a most interesting kindness. We thereby enable them to learn that man was originally created and placed in a state of happiness, but, becoming disobedient, was subjected to the degradation and evils which he and his posterity have since experienced.

“The Bible will also inform them that our gracious Creator has provided for us a Redeemer, in whom all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; that this Redeemer has made atonement “for the sins of the whole world,” and thereby reconciling the Divine justice with the Divine mercy has opened a way for our redemption and salvation; and that these inestimable benefits are of the free gift and grace of God, not of our deserving, nor in our power to deserve.”
–In God We Trust?The Religious Beliefs and Ideas of the American Founding Fathers, p. 379.

“In forming and settling my belief relative to the doctrines of Christianity, I adopted no articles from creeds but such only as, on careful examination, I found to be confirmed by the Bible.”
American Statesman Series, p. 360. [/quote]
Wikipedia on the founding fathers. Religion section. [quote]Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and two were Roman Catholics (D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.

A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson (who created the so-called “Jefferson Bible”) and Benjamin Franklin. Others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists.[/quote]

"The Roman Catholic archbishop-elect of San Francisco was arrested for investigation of driving under the influence, San Diego police said Monday.

The Rev. Salvatore Cordileone was taken into custody after being stopped early Saturday at a police checkpoint near the San Diego State University campus, said Detective Gary Hassen, a police spokesman. He declined to comment on whether Cordileone took a sobriety test or reveal his blood-alcohol content.

The stop was made at 12:26 a.m. on the outskirts of the campus, an area populated by college housing, modest restaurants and low-slung apartment buildings.

Read more: San Francisco archbishop-elect charged with drunken driving | Fox News

Probably out partying and looking for 14 year old boy runaways, to add to his San Francisco ‘flock’.

I spent a long time in drunken rebellion against the Lord AFTER He made me His child. Most miserable time in my life. Haven’t had a drop in going on 7 years, but I’m still rebuilding. There are a million things wrong with Catholicism. A single man’s criminal stupidity is not an indictment of any church.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I spent a long time in drunken rebellion against the Lord AFTER He made me His child. Most miserable time in my life. Haven’t had a drop in going on 7 years, but I’m still rebuilding. There are a million things wrong with Catholicism. A single man’s criminal stupidity is not an indictment of any church. [/quote]

That ‘single man’ is an archbishop. He IS the church, as an archbishop.

And he’s drunk driving…late at night…near a college campus…where no one will know him.

I wonder why? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Trib, you seem like a good man. Abandon these churches, these false idols. As I told Chris, when the Master returns, he go’n be pissed.

“Why do you talk and interact with evil drunkards, pedophiles, and money grubbers, when all you had to do was talk to Me?” Thus spake the Master…

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< That ‘single man’ is an archbishop. He IS the church, as an archbishop. >>>[/quote]Still a man and NO he is not the THE church. [quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< And he’s drunk driving…late at night…near a college campus…where no one will know him. I wonder why? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! >>>[/quote]I have no idea and neither do you. Maybe he is going through a very tough trial in his life and got drunk, drove his car and got lost. Still wrong but very human. I don’t how many times I woke up with my car half on the lawn because I was blacked out blind drunk the night before. Again, this is not what;s wrong with Catholicism.[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< Trib, you seem like a good man. >>>[/quote]If you’d known me for a long time in real life you’d know that I am not a good man. I am the worst kind of self worshiping, whoring, lying, conniving, back stabbing, people using con man you ever heard of. That man was sentenced to death with Christ on His cross and the man I am today is born again, having been raised with Him in newness of life. The accomplishment of that work in me will not be completed until the final resurrection. Until then, that old man is at WAR with the new. I am in mortal combat with him by the power and grace of God every minute of every day. (Read the 7th chapter of Romans) [quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< Abandon these churches, these false idols. As I told Chris, when the Master returns, he go’n be pissed. >>>[/quote]The very best churches on earth are full of sinners like me. That doesn’t make them false. All idols are false. I have none. I joyously worship and gratefully serve the God who has saved me from myself with the blood of His son. He IS go’n be pissed. But not at me. All that wrath was poured out on Jesus on my behalf.[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< “Why do you talk and interact with evil drunkards, pedophiles, and money grubbers, when all you had to do was talk to Me?” Thus spake the Master…[/quote]Thus did NOT spake the master. The master Himself spent a whole lotta time with the lowlifes of His day and now has commissioned His church to reach out to the lowlifes in every age on His behalf. When you come to church with me I’ll introduce you to a whole bunch of people who you WILL NOT BELIEVE what they used to be like.

You will be literally unable to imagine them like that. They have been raised from death in sin to life in Christ and are being transformed from glory to glory into His image. Just like me. I just have to say it again. You really don’t now a thing about Christianity dude.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< That ‘single man’ is an archbishop. He IS the church, as an archbishop. >>>[/quote]Still a man and NO he is not the THE church. [quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< And he’s drunk driving…late at night…near a college campus…where no one will know him. I wonder why? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! >>>[/quote]I have no idea and neither do you. Maybe he is going through a very tough trial in his life and got drunk, drove his car and got lost. Still wrong but very human. I don’t how many times I woke up with my car half on the lawn because I was blacked out blind drunk the night before. Again, this is not what;s wrong with Catholicism.[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< Trib, you seem like a good man. >>>[/quote]If you’d known me for a long time in real life you’d know that I am not a good man. I am the worst kind of self worshiping, whoring, lying, conniving, back stabbing, people using con man you ever heard of. That man was sentenced to death with Christ on His cross and the man I am today is born again, having been raised with Him in newness of life. The accomplishment of that work in me will not be completed until the final resurrection. Until then, that old man is at WAR with the new. I am in mortal combat with him by the power and grace of God every minute of every day. (Read the 7th chapter of Romans) [quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< Abandon these churches, these false idols. As I told Chris, when the Master returns, he go’n be pissed. >>>[/quote]The very best churches on earth are full of sinners like me. That doesn’t make them false. All idols are false. I have none. I joyously worship and gratefully serve the God who has saved me from myself with the blood of His son. He IS go’n be pissed. But not at me. All that wrath was poured out on Jesus on my behalf.[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< “Why do you talk and interact with evil drunkards, pedophiles, and money grubbers, when all you had to do was talk to Me?” Thus spake the Master…[/quote]Thus did NOT spake the master. The master Himself spent a whole lotta time with the lowlifes of His day and now has commissioned His church to reach out to the lowlifes in every age on His behalf. When you come to church with me I’ll introduce you to a whole bunch of people who you WILL NOT BELIEVE what they used to be like.

You will be literally unable to imagine them like that. They have been raised from death in sin to life in Christ and are being transformed from glory to glory into His image. Just like me. I just have to say it again. You really don’t now a thing about Christianity dude.
[/quote]

The difference from jESUS’ TIME TO TODAY (IF HE EVEN EXISTED) is that humanity has had 2000 years of his teachings. And we are no better for it. The reason is that an unnatural moral code is doomed from the start…which is why religion adopts it. They can then cash in on your guilt.

I feel no guilt whatsoever in my life. My life is my prized possession and I won’t give it up (or my free will) to scummy ‘soul eaters’ (what I call the people who run all religions).

I was born and I shall die. If there is an afterlife, fine. If not, that’s fine too. I used my mind to the best of my ability, harmed no one, and traded value for value. If that’s evil, well, fuck it…make the most of it. Life’s too short to spend it repenting and wailing to a being who doesn’t give a rat’s ass about all the death and horror in this world.

I’d like this ‘god’ to go before a Syrian mother who watched her child get its head blown off and say, 'Well, I’M not responsible for the evil men do. I had the power to stop this and didn’t because I’m mysterious, donchaknow?" She should spit on such a ‘god’.

Jesus didn’t come for the purpose of teaching a moral code, for the 1000th time. Also for the 1000th time, Jesus did not come to make mankind better. He came to “save His people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21) Once you understand who and what this God is? One bite from a piece of fruit in defiance of HIS command is infinitely and eternally more heinous than ALL the suffering, death and depravity this world will ever know combined. He owes no one anything except everlasting damnation. Trust me. Nobody will ever spit in His face again. I designed this for you. Where should I send it? Or I can give it to ya when you come to church with me.
Oh yeah. He is not responsible for the evil men do.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Jesus didn’t come for the purpose of teaching a moral code, for the 1000th time. Also for the 1000th time, Jesus did not come to make mankind better. He came to “save His people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21) Once you understand who and what this God is? One bite from a piece of fruit in defiance of HIS command is infinitely and eternally more heinous than ALL the suffering, death and depravity this world will ever know combined. He owes no one anything except everlasting damnation. Trust me. Nobody will ever spit in His face again. I designed this for you. Where should I send it? Or I can give it to ya when you come to church with me.
Oh yeah. He is not responsible for the evil men do.[/quote]

Precisely. It was the catholics that took Jesus’ example of altruism and held it up as a moral ideal, so that the catholics could attain power over the nations. The church is pure evil.

God = mathematics anyway. We are but chess pieces in the eternal game of the Master.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< Precisely. It was the catholics that took Jesus’ example of altruism and held it up as a moral ideal, so that the catholics could attain power over the nations. >>>[/quote]Here’s another gift I made for you. You really don’t see how illogical this is do you.[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< God = mathematics anyway. We are but chess pieces in the eternal game of the Master. [/quote]Prove it.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
God = mathematics anyway. We are but chess pieces in the eternal game of the Master. [/quote]Prove it.
[/quote]

Why do I need to prove this? Its a matter of faith.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< Why do I need to prove this? Its a matter of faith. [/quote]That’s the formally truest thing you’ve said so far.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< Why do I need to prove this? Its a matter of faith. [/quote]That’s the formally truest thing you’ve said so far.
[/quote]You believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster too? Thought I was the only one!