Has anyone else experienced this?
I tried 6 weeks sub q at 105mg per week and my e2 was higher than my 6 weeks IM
IM: test 26.9nmol/l, estrogen 155 pmol/l
SubQ: test 24.0 nmol/l, estrogen 212pmol/l
Both were dosing EOD (same frequency). Also taking HCG at 100 UI per day
Yes i experienced the same. Aromatase enzymes placed in fatty tissues could be reason.
Higher estrogen on SQ, same results here. Lean guys are the only ones who should be considering SQ.
I’m fairly lean, around 12-14% bf I would say.
For some reason my doc wants me to stay on sub q and take an AI. Think I will just go back to shallow IM
So if the speed of absorption is faster for intramuscular injection compared to subcutaneous injection. Because the muscle tissue has a greater blood supply than the area just under the skin. Muscle tissue may also hold a larger volume of medication than subcutaneous tissue.
Wouldn’ that mean T would spike sooner and stronger and if you get a big T spike you will get a bigger E2 spike.
Just thinking out loud. I have only injected sub-Q and never had an E2 problem so I have no personnel experience.
Yes, sub q should result in less E2 than IM due to slower absorption. but for some reason in me it did not…
I think the theory is sound that subQ should probably aromatase, less (slower absorption, thus more even slower release etc)…except for the fact that aromatase enzymes live in fat tissue, and you’re injecting the source that gets converted to E2 (Test) straight into that aromatase medium…
BUT…I still don’t think that’s your issue either…
I think your test dose may be too high. Even at 24 (and I’m assuming that’s Free T right?) you’re still at the top and maybe even a little past the top of the range.
You could probably drop the HCG and get that in line with the same test dose, or lower the test and/or the HCG dosage.
The 24 is total t. It’s in UK measurement so in US thats 692ng/dl. That’s actually a bit low I am going to try and take it higher on IM.
I am not worried about e2 as I haven’t had any sides. People are telling me to lower it but I feel fine.
Agree HCG is elevating my e2 but need to have that for fertility.
So what is your Free T? You should never try to dial in a test protocol based solely on total T.
Are you trying to have a kid now? If not then you don’t need it for fertility. Add it back a couple of months before you are trying to conceive and it’ll do its job. For the moment, it’s complicating your protocol…
If you are trying to get your wife pregnant now, best of luck. Try to ditch it once you’ve done the deed and then you can get dialed in properly.
Some guys do great dialing in test with HCG. Some guys react very badly to it like you are right now. I would seriously consider using it for your specific needs, when those needs are real, and then ditch it when those needs are no longer there.
Free t
IM: 0.592 nmol/l
SubQ: 0.53 nmol/l
I am looking to get them 20 to 25 pg/mL (0.6934-0.866nmol/l)
My doc is a big believer in HCG but I agree would be interesting to drop to dial in T first
I’m no expert by any means, but my opinion is this.
If you did drop it you could probably run test a tad higher without having to worry about E2 creeping up on you. If you keep trying to get it up there with the protocol you’re running, you may have to resort to an AI if your high E2 starts giving you symptoms. I don’t know from experience, but my understanding is that you would potentially be heading down a hard road with that route.
I don’t think that is how it works. T is in oil and the T has to leave the oil and be cleved in the blood stream then finely it makes it into the fat cells where the aromatase enzyme converts it. Its all a rather slow process esp when you use a T with a long half life. In muscle it get in the blood much quicker but still only at the rate of its halflife.
Thanks for clarifying. That makes more sense.