T Nation

High T, High SHBG, Low Free Test. Anavar the Answer?

Seeking advice after my recent bloodwork. I’m 28 years old, in good shape (6’2” 205 <10% bf), no real libido issues, but is definitely lower than it used to be. Still feeling strong, but less energy/motivation than usual, and have also been dropping weight consistently for months even as I increase my caloric intake. Decided to have bloodwork just to check up and get a baseline. Turns out my SHBG levels are high, actually very high after what I’ve learned from this thread. And as a result free test is low relative to my total test levels.

Without hesitation, my doctor prescribed me to 25mg Oxandrolone/day for 8 weeks. Said that he’s used this approach numerous times, and confidently told me at this dose I wouldn’t have shut down or sides (hair loss is the one I’m worried about). Also said I would need no pct after.

I have the Oxandrolone, but am very hesitant to jump on it. At 28 I don’t want to end up in a situation where I have to jump on TRT for the rest of my life, and also don’t want any of the sides possible with anavar. Doc wants me to take it, and check up on my bloodwork again in a month to make sure I’m on track…would you guys give the anavar a shot, or try some other solutions first? I know there are so many factors to consider, but what are the chances I see a shut down, or sides from the anavar (hair loss)? Have also considered taking 12.5mg instead of 25mg to lower the risk of those things happening, while still freeing up test/lowering SHBG. I plan on getting a second opinion from another doctor, but thought I’d post here and see if you guys had any input. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

A second opinion isn’t going to change the prognosis, it’s either go on TRT or things will only get worse. Your liver is overproducing SHBG and is impossible to manipulate it, you have to play your cards where they fall. Your pituitary gland detects low Free T and is cranking out LH to increase testosterone which is why your Total T and LH levels are so high, sadly it’s a losing battle we see here on T-nation all the time.

Your pituitary gland is maxed out and can’t do anything more to compete with very high SHBG which is binding the majority of your testosterone and handcuffing your bioavailable testosterone…

Resistance to TRT at this point is futile.

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Thank you for the feedback. Could liver supplements/improving liver health possibly help?

Does a high dose of TRT typically suppress those levels, or can the SHBG rise with the higher test levels and essentially prevent any actual raise in free levels?

It’s not so much as liver health as it is genetic or liver scarring, in either case you can’t change atler it much without TRT. Excess androgens is what lowers SHBG, even more rare we have members that don’t ever see SHBG move at all on TRT.

These guys are F*******.

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Gotcha. So if you were in my shoes, would you just hop on TRT, or would you try the anavar first? My doc did offer TRT as a solution as well.

You need to make the decision on your own, otherwise years from now you’ll start second guessing whether or not you needed TRT.

The side effects of Anavar is enough for me to stay clear of it.

What are the biggest/most likely sides you’d be concerned with with anavar?

Can increase the risk of cancer, heart and liver disease, and high blood pressure.

Here is some reading material just in case you want a different perspective.

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What other medications are you on. Any dieting going on. Did you go keto or paleo. New Supplements. what else is going on… your body is creating testasterone and that means the system is fine. Your shbg is high for some reason and is a recent change right? So you have to look into your life. Did you change anything recently (1-3 years) . Did you move, start a new job, take new medication. New foods. Surgery?

There’s tech, chemicals and pollution in the air and are causing men in 2019 to have lower testasterone than those 20 or 30 or 100 years ago. It’s turning into an epidemic and is directly correlated to the above factors.

I personally would look to see if there is anything around me causing this that I can control. Your young and should be able to recover. Find more information on what chemicals and technology is known to cause hormonal issues.You might not find anything. It’s worth a try though.

I personally would attempt to lower my shbg using whatever information is out there on the internet. Sure they say it’s almost impossible, but I’d try anyways. Maybe something will work. Just don’t accidentally hurt your hormonal system further. Be careful with whatever you try and go ahead and share it here. I’m sure most would be interested in seeing your progress and maybe giving further information: the men here have a vast amount of info on many many topics. Mind boggling really.

Also find an HRt doc of the doc you have is not. Someone who specializes in hormones and not the entire endocrine system.

So is he giving you this medicine specifically to lower SHBG? If so how does it actually work. Is the lowering temporary. What if it just goes back
To normal when you stop. Find the cause don’t treat the symptom in this case.

You likely won’t have anything wrong occur with you from using oxandrolone for 8 weeks. Literature shows (in sick people) it’s a relatively safe drug, it’s been used at 20-80mg/day for prolonged periods of time in HIV+ patients, and in children oxandrolone has been used to treat short stature (high and disproportionate ratio of anabolism to androgenicity, and the anabolic potential of AAS include stimulation of linear bone growth if growth plates aren’t already fused), in low doses (.1-.2mg/kg/day) in multiple trials oxandrolone has been shown to increase final predicted adult height.

The problem with oxandrolone is that it tends to trash you’re lipids (and 25mg will certainly do this), it’ll also suppress you’re HTPA, I believe 15mg/day shuts off about 50% of you’re natural T production (or was it 60%?) I don’t remember, so while 25mg won’t shut you down as hard as 25mg/day of test would, it’ll still suppress you… heavily, were talking about an 80-90% decline in test levels. However the decline is reversible, once you stop using, levels tend to go back to baseline.

Will oxandrolone lower you’re SHBG? Yes, because DHT has a very high binding affinity to DHT, oxandrolone is a DHT derivative, has a very strong binding to the AR and to SHBG. Legitimate oxandrolone is pretty strong stuff. However after you cease use of the oxandrolone, all hormonal parameters will creep back to baseline.

SHBG fluctuates, as does free and total T. From what I see, you have a high normal level of DHT, a high TT, low normal Free T… Do you have symptoms of low T? Because you’re problems may not be hormonal at all.

Hepatotoxicity can also be a concern with oxandrolone, however less so than other C17AA androgens as it is primarily really metabolised (uniquely of all other AAS) and thus nephrotoxicity is probably a bigger issue. You won’t get heart, liver disease from 8 wks at 25mg/day (high blood pressure is a concern), the chances of cancer is like 0.000000000001% at that duration and dose of use with monitoring of a doctor (of course those tiny odds are an exaggeration, I mean the chances of acquiring cancer in the next month regardless of oxandrolone is probs higher than 0,000000000001%)

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Thank you all for the insight/feedback.

@enackers I agree with you, a natural approach is always worth a shot. I’m pretty conscious about harmful chemicals in the environment (use shower head/water filter, only drink from glass if possible, avoid estrogenic foods, etc). I did recently add Shilajit into my supplement regiment (Himalayan mineral based “natural” boost I first got for free). I do notice a slight difference when I take it. Could this be why my LH levels are high? Could SHBG be rising in correlation with the other rising levels from shilajit?

@unreal24278 I saw that study as well, interesting stuff. I believe it was 60% suppression, and after only 5 days…More interesting was that the other benefits (muscle protein synthesis, etc) showed days 1-4, without any suppression. Wondering if I could do a 3 on 2 off approach to minimize possible sides/HPTA shutdown, and still knock down that SHBG? And possibly reap some of the muscle protein synthesis and other benefits in the process?

Short of a liver transplant, recovery naturally by lowering SHBG is a pipe dream.

Just remove it and let’s see. Stop today and wait 30 days and take a blood test. Then another in 30 days to see if it keeps dropping. Who knows maybe it did increase it. It’s worth a shot. Your levels were normal until recently. This doesn’t jsut happen to men, it just is not normal.

What exactly does it do?

Dude a quick google shows this is a booster. These are known to mess up men’s hormones. They are temporary but also known to cause low t in men. That’s why many docs say don’t ever use boosters. I bet this is what is causing your issue. Drop it.

The liver is a remarkably regenerative organ. Cholastasis is probably the worst case scenario, however since oxandrolone is primarily metabolised renally (unique among all hormones), I’d argue kidney damage is probs the biggest risk.

There’s no data linking oxandrolone to a dramatically increased risk of cancer, as a matter of fact I don’t believe there’s a single case report of an oxandrolone induced liver failure/ hepatocellular carcinoma.

Given that oxandrolone is metabolized via kidneys and can cause HBP (then again so can test) I’d say kidney damage is the biggest concern, that and atherosclerotic plaque build up as oxandrolone will do a number on his lipids (25mg/day will probably increase his LDL my like 30% and decrease his HDL by 30-40%) thus his HDL/LDL ratio will take a turn for the worse.

Oxandrolone is a harsh drug that certainly isn’t suitable for TRT, however 8 weeks of use in a healthy adult male most likely isn’t going to cause any serious long term repercussions so long as BP can be kept in check (hypertensive crisis can equate to a very quick death)

Edit: wait, nvm I get what you were saying. My bad lol. I HAVE A SOLUTION FOR OP. He could acquire type 2 diabetes on purpose.

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Nah you’ll still supress endogenous T production, there isn’t much of a point. You could try like 2.5mg/day. However I’m not so sure you need hormone replacement at all given you aren’t particularly symptomatic and you’re labs don’t look too bad (DHT should be more than enough for libido). How’s you’re energy levels?

I haven’t experienced too many symptoms, lower energy being one of them. Other than that, slightly lower libido, but nothing serious, and some gradual weight loss. It’s more about optimization for me…definitely want to be at the best level I can be, and hate that the SHBG is keeping me from utlizing the test I have.

Over the last week I’ve doubled my vitamin D intake and added 10mg boron…honestly think it’s started to make a difference already. Going to keep that going, remove the shilajit, and see where I’m at in a month or so.

Now to just figure out what to do with this pharma grade anavar

Why not attempt to optimize yourself without hormones first and see what can be done. In you’re situation I really don’t think TRT is nessecary

Boron is good

If taking vitamin D take some magnesium with it. A ton of the US population is magnesium deficient. Can’t absorb vit D properly without magnesium. I can go into the specifics on that if you want but I don’t think you’ll find it especially interesting.

http://www.ergo-log.com/nigella-sativa-testosterone.html

New study, yeet. Long term effects of these herbs unknown but it does appear to boost T

What’s you’re diet, lifestyle and training routine like

What’s you’re BF%, average stress levels?

Fix all these and you can optimize yourself. I really don’t think you need TRT but I could be wrong

Any prescription meds worth noting?