T Nation

High T, High E2


#1

Posted before in "Steroids" but no one helped me there.
How's it going guys, hope you could help me out a little.
Well, I'm 17, lifting for 2 years and counting. For a lot of time I felt as if gaining muscle is hard and I gain fat pretty easy. I did blood tests a while back and everything was fine.
After a while on a low carb diet I decided to take some hormone tests once again to see whats up because my libido is low, and I feel tired most of time.

So my Test Total is 979.8270 ng\dl (not a mistake...) and E2 is 181 pmol\l.
Rest of the hormones are fine.

I also found out that E2 is responsible for growth plate closure and I find it true because I'm short, my height is 5"4.

I want to mention something very important before you reply, I don't use anabolics nor any OTC hormones or anything and never used any. Seriously, if this was the case I would ask help according to what Iv'e done, but I didn't really do anything.

My endo isn't helping, nor any other endo Iv'e been to.
Please advice me what to do, thanks.


#2

Please post your lab data with ranges. “everything was fine” and “Rest of the hormones are fine” may not be true.

I agree with your E2 and stature concerns if you have stopped growing.

E2 appears high, but no range posted.

Please read the advice for new guys sticky. Read carefully and don’t ignore the non-T issues.

Did you get thyroid levels checked? Are you using sea salt or iodized salt? Check body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky.

Where are you located? - affects treatment options


#3

Hey KSman.
Here are two tests, the first one was taken 2 weeks ago, and the second test has been taken 1 week ago to re-check the previous exceptions.
Test 1: http://imgur.com/Te1Esgk
Test 2: http://imgur.com/tp5t6DL

A few points to mention:
*I’m super stressed before the blood tests to it might explain the Cortisol levels.
*I feel tired a lot, my energy is very low, so does the libido, I lost my morning wood long time ago and it’s very hard
to lose abdominal fat.
*I assume that the FSH is low due to the high E2.


#4

Your E2 is way to high. Would be best near 22pg/ml

http://www.globalrph.com/conv_si.htm

Your TSH is too high.
Are you using sea salt or iodized salt? Check body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky.
Thyroid problems could explain fat gain issues and energy.

Where are you located? Canada?

I assume that the FSH is low due to the high E2 ->>>YES<<<

Please read the advice for new guys sticky. Read carefully and don’t ignore the non-T issues.

Need to know if liver is OK. AST/ALT OK?


#5

[quote]KSman wrote:
Your E2 is way to high. Would be best near 22pg/ml

http://www.globalrph.com/conv_si.htm

Your TSH is too high.
Are you using sea salt or iodized salt? Check body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky.
Thyroid problems could explain fat gain issues and energy.

Where are you located? Canada?

I assume that the FSH is low due to the high E2 ->>>YES<<<

Please read the advice for new guys sticky. Read carefully and don’t ignore the non-T issues.

Need to know if liver is OK. AST/ALT OK?
[/quote]
TSH too high? it looks like the score I got is in the low end of the scale.
Be sure to look closely at the units, because from what Iv’e seen, my tests are in different units than the one’s in the US.

I use organic himalayan salt, not sure if it’s iodized or not…

I read the sticky, as well as the one on E2 you posted (which was great), I think the solution to my problems will be some AI like Adex with some mild protocol like 0.5mg-1mg a week for a month and than get tested.

ALT/AST : In the middle range.

-age : 17

-height : 5"4 (161cm)

-weight : 124lb (56~)

-describe body and facial hair : I have a fast growing beard, and some belly\chest hair.

-describe where you carry fat and how changed : BELLY! I lost 17 pounds over the last few months and I can barely see any change in my abdominal area. Also, I simply can’t put muscle… I gain weight in normal rate while bulking, lets say around 2LB a month with good training plan and I put almost no muscle, just fat.

-health conditions, symptoms : Nothing (well maybe besides this one).

-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs : Never ever.

-lab results with ranges : Posted.

-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets] : Low carb diet, 2000kcal a day. but I had this issue even while bulking with 2800-300kcal with carbs, so I assume it dosen’t has to do with the diet.

-describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training]: I lift 4 times a week (only the big 4.) and do 15 minute rope hiit.

-testes ache, ever, with a fever? : Nope.

-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed : Oh man, I think I lost my morning wood around around the time I was 13 (interestingly that’s around the time I stopped growing in height). I do get some night erections but not that much. Also, random erections dosen’t exist, it’s really hard to get an erection.


#6

TSH should be near 1.0 ng/dL, your linked labs are in these units


Read the thyroid basics sticky.

Himalayan salt: Has no useful amounts of iodine. How long have you been using that? You are iodine deficient.

Check your body temperatures!!!

Your symptoms are also very consistent with thyroid problems, large overlap with hypogonadism.

Your hormones came on too fast and early and shutdown bone growth. I know the pattern well.


#7

[quote]KSman wrote:
TSH should be near 1.0 ng/dL, your linked labs are in these units


Read the thyroid basics sticky.

Himalayan salt: Has no useful amounts of iodine. How long have you been using that? You are iodine deficient.

Check your body temperatures!!!

Your symptoms are also very consistent with thyroid problems, large overlap with hypogonadism.

Your hormones came on too fast and early and shutdown bone growth. I know the pattern well.[/quote]
I will read the thyroid sticky, and check my temps soon as I will get a mouth thermometer.

I’m using the himalayan salt for around a month, but I guess I’m iodine deficent for quite a while, what should I do about it?

Anything serious? or something that can be fixed? I’m kinda worried right now…

Maybe your’e right. I had pubic hair started growing when I was in 4-5th grade.
As well as hair in the armpits. is there any way I could save some of that
growth? maybe lower the E2 and hope for the best?


#8

Once the growth plates change, its all done.

If you were using iodized salt continuously before, iodine situation should not be a major issue.


#9

[quote]KSman wrote:
Once the growth plates change, its all done.

If you were using iodized salt continuously before, iodine situation should not be a major issue.[/quote]
Actually I have never usied an iodized salt. I checked the one I was using before the himalayan and there’s no iodine in it.

I checked the temps under my tounge right when I woke up and got myself a score of 36.3C \ 97.34F. I thought my blood tests indicate that thyroid is fine, but according to the temps it’s not. what should I do from here?

Should the E2 still be a concern, and I need to lower it directly with an AI, no connectin between the estradiol and the temps?


#10

Read the thyroid sticky and note info re iodine replenishment. The key point is that you cannot replenish your iodine stores with a maintenance dose, you need to get something stronger. You might feel a lot better with that. Also linked there, or you can search: read my post ‘ksman has a thyroid problem’


#11

[quote]KSman wrote:
Read the thyroid sticky and note info re iodine replenishment. The key point is that you cannot replenish your iodine stores with a maintenance dose, you need to get something stronger. You might feel a lot better with that. Also linked there, or you can search: read my post ‘ksman has a thyroid problem’

[/quote]
Hey KSman,
First, thanks for helping me and many others, your’e our saviour :slight_smile:

Now, I went to a new Endo today and she basically sent me away saying that everything is fine and I shouldn’t be concerned. so my E2 is still high with no solution. I’m really not sure what to do from here as my side effects aren’t getting better. I feel emotional as f*ck very often, belly fat isn’t going anywhere and gaining muscle is practically impossible, also my nipples feel kinda ‘puffy’… I could really use some advice what to do from here.


#12

You could reply to all of my points and questions.

Where are you located? this affects your options.


#13

I think I replied to all of the questions, besides the location.
I’m located in Israel if it helps somehow.


#14

So where you are, you probably cannot do lab work on your own.

Have you read the finding a TRT doc thread? After doing that, work with this:

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=compounding+pharmacy+israel&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=il


#15

If that’s the issue, I can do lab works on my own. It will cost me some $$ but it’s possible to do it in a private lab. I wanted to know what kind of treatment you think would be right for the Estradiol so I could try another doctor.


#16

The only effective way to lower elevated E2 is with anastrozole, 1mg per week in divided doses or less. You will want to be familiar with related issues in the stickies. Many healthcare providers can be shy about anastrozole because it is a “cancer drug”. Others will see it for what it is, an aromatase inhibitor that can in low doses be used to modulate E2 to achieve favorable levels.


#17

You think that the high aromatization could be something temporary due to puberty or now I’m dependent on AI for life?

Also, I know Adex comes in 1mg pills, Is it possible to just take once a week 1mg in one dose or deviding using a liquid is necessary?

And yes, those doctors are ignorant. in order to get a prescription you need to have some deadly condition. It’s like talking to a wall. 2 different endo’s saying that it’s because of protein, or training, but when you try to explain them something - you know nothing. I mean, why would you? the patients are stupid… no chance the patient knows what he’s talking about.


#18

Anastrozole halflife requires divided dosing.


#19

A guy I found offers me Adex 28tab 1mg for around 115$.
I know it’s expensive compared to prescribed adex, but you think I should go for it? from talking to few endo’s there is really no chance for me to get a prescription for the drug.

Also, I saw that research chem sites sell it in liquid form. Any company that you would recommand?


#20

Cannot recommend purity sol any more after they started to ship bunk.