T Nation

High T, FSH, SHBG, Low E2 No Libido. My Lab Results


#183

@NH_Watts
@hd44
9-21-18 collection date

My only source of Testosterone is from pellets. The difference between 10/19/18 tests and 9/21/18 tests are the additional of Yohimbine supplement, which is not believed to cause T-increases.

As to how the pellet releases the testosterone: I can’t answer that with actual knowledge. All I can say, is that 48 hours after a pellet insertion, my body registers the full value of the pellets inserted. After three insertions, I have always experienced decreases each month - sometimes substantial decreases - which was one of the reasons for higher dosing.


24 Hour Hormone Urine Test - The Gold Standard
#184

I met with my doctor today but I didn’t have my urine test results yet. If you are interested in the 24-hour urine test from Rhein, take a look here.

Hematocrit: He didn’t feel I should worry too much as my RBC was good and he expected an increase. But he did make the suggestion of donating blood.

He was surprised to see HDL go low, but agreed with my research that Testosterone and Steroids can artificially lower this number, when none of the other reasons fit.

He wasn’t worried about LDL since it was still below 130, and I am healthy with no Diabetes, etc. Just advised to keep watching it. And spend more time with weights.

Alkaline Phosphatase: He was not sure about this one and will do some reading. It was the first time he saw this come back unusual.

Had a pellet insertion that went fine. Told him I would see him in three months but would email my urine hormone results shortly.

I am still feeling good … since 9-25-18.


#185

Here is the results of my Urine Test.

A few things surprised me …

  1. Estradiol was mid-range; even though it had increased on the last blood tests.
  2. DHEA was crazy high! It was super high in the bloods two tests back, but I lowered my supplement and blood level shows ok. Urine level was off the chart! (I do not notice any side effects from high DHEA).
  3. Cortisone/Cortisol is normal. That is a change from previous saliva test. (Dark chocolate, probiotic, water and adrenal supplements, as well as Nitric Oxide supplements with L-Arginine might be helping)

I don’t know about the two LOW results.

My results didn’t come with a guide … but I found one online.


#186

I don’t remember who posted about proviron being unavailable, but my pharmacy in Asia is out of stock and has no idea whether they will get more in stock.

As a replacement, they had PROVIBOL which I had never heard of. It is an Indian brand, same pill strength, etc., as proviron, with the same active ingredient.

It was also the same price which means they are probably making more money with an Indian brand instead of Bayer/shering from Brazil.


#187

I met with my doctor here in Asia today, and she wasn’t happy about my Vit D levels being so high, when considered with other blood tests that were out of bounds. She wants me to reduce by 2/3 the amount I take and then retest to see where the levels are. FYI @NH_Watts; I was surprised to hear her concern.

She was MOST unhappy with my hematocrit of 53.5 and convinced me to get a blood draw immediately. Note to self: the needle used for giving blood or blood draws is not small like the one used for a blood test. It hurt! 400cc (13.5 oz) of blood was removed from me and destroyed.

During my next blood test, she wants me to add GGT and Vit B6. She also wants a liver ultra sound because as she said - “not enough is really known about low alkaline phophatase” and she wants to make sure there is nothing in the liver. None of my notes indicate that I have ever had a liver ultra sound before.

I had written about the possible link between “excess” vitamin D ingestion and Low ALP, so I guess I should have made adjustments myself without needing to be told. Live and lean.

She also mentioned that what is considered “excess” varies tremendously between people, but that anything over 100 in the blood test could be considered at the toxic level (depending on the person). I was at 99.7.

The estradiol increase is another aspect of her worries, but I explained that I wanted to see it increase slightly to see if I felt any better overall. Since I have been feeling better, I am trying to watch and learn where the “E sweet spot” is for me.

She prescribed my 90 days of Danazol; which cost me the same amount as I pay for 30 days in the USA. American Health Care … go figure.


On another note, I started experimenting with Proviron again for libido. Started 1/day for five days; am now at 2/day and working toward 3/day. So far, 1/day is still having the same ZERO effect as before. I am taking them at different times, but am curious if that really gets the maximum effect, since the half-life is 12 hours; and takes 2 hours to be in full force.


#188

Seems unwarranted but docs can be funny about numbers.

" RESULTS:
Of 20,308 total 25(OH)D measurements, 1714 (8.4%), 123 (0.6%), and 37 (0.2%) unique persons had 25(OH)D values above 50, 80 and above, and 100 ng/mL and above, respectively. The age- and sex-adjusted incidence of 25(OH)D values above 50 ng/mL increased from 9 to 233 cases per 100,000 person-years from 2002 to 2011 (P<.001), respectively, and was greatest in persons aged 65 years and older (P<.001) and in women (P<.001). Serum 25(OH)D values were not significantly related to serum calcium values (P=.20) or with the risk of hypercalcemia (P=.24). A medical record review identified 4 cases (0.2%) in whom 25(OH)D values above 50 ng/mL were temporally associated with hypercalcemia, but only 1 case had clinical toxicity associated with the highest observed 25(OH)D value of 364 ng/mL"

Yeah donation needles are nearly sharpened straws. Because there is so much being taken it quickens the process and keeps the needle from getting clogged up. They usually use an anticoagulant that stings pretty well too.


#189

Proviron Update:

I stopped my final experiment with Proviron today. I had worked up to 3/day and felt worse than before. I am not taking blood tests right now to support my feelings, but I am guessing that Proviron and Danazol don’t work well together; and I’m GUESSING that it is lowering my Estradiol levels too much, which is why I am having MORE erection problems rather than less.

So, I guess that it is it for me, and experimenting with Proviron. I had high hopes of major libido enhancement that never materialized.
:frowning:


#190

MY ONE YEAR UPDATE:

My first post on TForums was 11/8/17. It has been one year since I started documenting my road to (hopeful) recovery and improvement.

Since that first post …

I have gained 21 pounds, not intentionally, but not flab either. I had a short term feeling of being “bloated” but that went away immediately.

I sleep well now in total contrast! I didn’t realize just how good I am sleeping until I was traveling again and STILL sleeping good. That is something I hope will never change. Now if I could only sleep ALL NIGHT without waking up!

I still cry during emotional tv. Damnit.

I don’t fart for 20-30 seconds every morning anymore. My wife is happy. I assume that is from the Probiotic.

I chose BioTE testosterone pellet insertion. Contrary to other poster’s opinions, it was NOT a mistake. It takes a while to determine the dose and longevity of the insertion, and I had one month of feeling like shit on pellets because of a substantial drop before my boost. Monthly blood work allowed me and the doctor to determine how much T I needed and how often. You do not need to crash every cycle like some people write - provided you have a doctor that understands and will work with you. YES, you CAN optimize dosage, don’t be fooled.

Contrary to other posts, pellets ARE the best solution for me. No needles, injections, getting all of this crap through customs in multiple countries. And I hate injections and I know I would not do it forever. AND … I have had less side effects.

Testosterone DID NOT and DOES NOT reduce SHBG in MY circumstance. I needed something else to reduce SHBG because no amount of T was going to do it, regardless of whether it was a pellet in my ass or a needle stuck in me.

I hit 2.64% on the Free T count. Something I was told wasn’t possible on pellets.

I had high cortisone and cortisol. Both have now been reduced.

I feel better about life; the world is in color, vibrant and brighter than it was during my first post one year ago. I am not so tired as before. It has only been six weeks that I have felt this way.

I feel so much more balanced than before.

My hematocrit climbed over 50 a few times and I had “blood let” last week to appease my doctor.

And now ERECTIONS … I still need chemical help (ie: viagra) to go from a banana in its peeling to a cucumber. However, I do see more of that banana in its peeling that I have in years.

Erections still aren’t where I want, but progress has been made and I’m not sure how much better I am going to get.

I still take a ridiculous amount of supplements, and will continue to do so. My wife won’t watch me swallow them because it makes her sick to think of the number of capsules I am swallowing.

Every three months, my ass is sore for a week. And if you rub my ass, you can feel bumps were T pellets are located. (That was a statement, not an offer.) LOL

Costs:
BioTe pellet insertions are averaging $230-$250 per month based on the three months I am getting out of the pellets.

Danazol is approximately $86 per month.

Supplements/vitamins are probably about $200 per month including shakes, but I don’t actually add their cost.

I am NOT a bodybuilder or a trainer or a serious weight-lifter of any kind. I am an average guy pre-disposed to suffer with insane levels of SHBG.

I do not plan to quit posting, and if there are any updates, I will be sure to include them in this journal of my journey.

Thanks to those of you who have kept up and offered opinions along the way.


#191

I was re-reading your post today.

Of my 21 pound gain in a year, 60% was since September (slightly over 2 months). As I look back, I find that figure interesting, as I did stop paying so much attention to carbs and began to gradually eat more. But truthfully, I was HUNGRY - it wasn’t a conscious effort to eat more. Third week of September is when I started feeling like a human.

I eat a truckload of fruit - to the point that one doctor thought I might be eating too much. I can’t prove or disprove that the fruit (fructose) was helping to lower my SHBG.

You also mentioned protein. With morning shake supplements and afternoon Quest protein bars in addition to eating meat, I felt that I was getting the protein I needed.

NOTHING affected my SHBG levels except for Boron (only slightly) and Danazol (substantially).

I have also resigned myself to the real-life potential of being a heavier person. That wasn’t what my plan was in life, but when it comes to being skinny, or having a working penis, I choose the latter.

:slight_smile:

I won’t stop TRT. I don’t want to experiment any more. BUT - I still say that I wish I would have tried other treatments before TRT. And even though everyone has drilled it into my head that my testicles would have shut down, I still would have liked to see what would have happened with danazol and increasing my diet first. I was checking my blood every month; I could have started TRT anytime.

Maybe this post will help someone else to consider more possibilities when SHBG is insanely high like mine. Because what I was told - and what I read – that SHBG is driven down by Testosterone – was not correct in my situation.


#192

I wonder if the liver was too busy metabolizing the fructose to crank out SHBG?


#193

going by the Trigs and VLDL, it looks like your liver is doing just fine with the truckload of fruits you’re having.

I’m on 5 bananas, 2 kiwis, 2 apples and 16oz of berry juice a day… doctors need to understand that fructose from fruits isn’t exactly the poison Dr. Lustig is always talking about (he’s actually pro fruit). Your liver appreciates having a full reserve of liver glycogen. You’ll burn it quick.

By the way I think your T protocol is overdosed. You wouldn’t need viagra if you had half those levels, all (major) hormones included. You’re consistently in the 4 digits for total T, you’re above range for free T and total e2 so I’m guessing free e2 is going to be too high. Just reduce the T protocol and shoot for mid range.

I don’t know where you live but 12kIU of vitamin D may be a lot if you want to maintain satisfactory levels. I tested at 93 ng/mL the other week myself, and I backed down to 40kIU e10d. Make sure your K2 intake is high in this scenario.

Obviously using Proviron beyond 12.5mg may have proven to be too much, I’m very sensitive to it and barely need this dose 3 days a week to feel great. More isn’t, has never been, and will never be better when it comes to HRT I’m afraid.


#194

Hi @tontongg, thanks for the comments.

PRIOR to TRT, I maintained a T level always above 1000 (sometimes as high as 1300). The internet world all believe that my levels were “artificially high” because of SHBG. The doctors believe my T levels are an anomaly and were probably over 3000 when I was a teen.

I feel my best when I stay over 1500. With pellets, to stay higher than that for my cycle, I must start higher. However, I continue to check blood levels and chart how I feel. As part of my testing, I got down to 762 and 444 and wanted to die.

After the blood let, my Asian doctor complained about the Vit D levels, especially with the ALP going so low (without explanation). I have reduced vit D by 2/3, taking about (?) 3000iu per day.

By the way, you can see a better picture of the Estrogens in the 24-hour urine hormone panel here.

Blood tests will be the first week of December.


#195

Alright alright

The older I get the more I understand the mantra “treat symptoms not numbers”. I’m not convinced high (free) Androgens is a desirable place to be in but if that’s how you feel best then np