T Nation

High T, FSH, SHBG, Low E2 No Libido. My Lab Results (pellets)


#83

That’s a huge drop! Which is why your TT took such a big hit.

Estrogen would have been vital! Your taking something that suppresses e2 (Proviron) might’ve where your problems are.

Closer to the answers thoigh. Glad for you man.


#84

Yes, and I could kick myself for not remembering to add Estradiol to the test order.

However, I find it interesting that when I was on Proviron every day during the previous one month trial, I didn’t notice any effect on E2.

I am interested to see the results of the saliva test I took 3 weeks ago. I don’t anticipate the results to be different from the one I took in 2017.

Thanks for the comment …


#85

by any chance do you know if peanut butter or cashews increases shbg?


#86

@stevow7
No, I do not - but have never read that cashews were an issue.

You might have read that I was a serious Almond eater! When I determined that a potential link between SHBG and Almonds existed, I gave up my favorite nut.

I saw no change in SHBG that could be related to Almonds, but as part of my experimentation, I have avoided Almonds consumption.


#87

thanks for the reply. altho, did you ended up on trt?


#88

peanut butter and cashews are good.

Almonds, pistachios, and walnuts are no good for SHBG.


#89

I found a very interesting article discussing personal experiences with SHBG, E2, SIBO and more. http://www.allthingsmale.com/community/threads/extremely-high-tt-and-shbg-feels-like-low-t.25889/

It made me review my E2 levels. They were always low; and didn’t test high ever except one odd-ball saliva test.

2016 - Low - 10.4 - 25.0 (ref: 25.8-60 NON-sensitive test)
Jan 2017 - Saliva Test - HIGH(?) - 2.8 (ref: .5-2.2)
2017 - LOW 5 - 7.8 (ref: 25.8-60 NON-sensitive test)
2017 - Urine Test: AVERAGE .21 (ref: .18-.49)
2018 - Before TRT: LOW 10.9 (ref: 25.8 - 60 NON-sensitive test)
2018 - After TRT: AVERAGE 24.6 - 28.8 (ref: 8-35 SENSITIVE TEST)

I am not able to correlate my Estrogen/Estradiol levels to how I felt or currently feel. Most TRT guys post that their sweet spot is “20-30”. But the marked increase in 2018 (from LOW to AVERAGE) doesn’t correlate to any improvements.

In the link I quoted, it was mentioned that “going to low [on Estradiol] [will cause men to not be able to] get it up taking Viagra”. That makes sense to me, and how I found Viagra wasn’t working like it should.


31 Yrs Old. High SHBG, Normal TT/FSH/LH, Low Free T
#90

2017


2018

New Saliva Cortisol Test results received. Black and White results are from 1-17-17 test, while color results are from 7-13-18 test.

In 2017, one of the cortisol readings was high; In 2018, both midday and evening show elevated cortisol.

DHEAS was LOW in 2018, but normal in 2017.

From the doctor:
Regarding your lab results, you have low morning cortisol and DHEA with slightly elevated cortisol the rest of the day as well as low morning DHEA. Sub-optimal adrenal function can worsen your symptoms. So when we want to maximize the adrenal function, it means we have to do something about it by helping your adrenal glands. For example, you can take adrenal boosting extracts like ashwagandha, ginseng, cordyceps, rhodiola, black ginger, or desiccated adrenal gland extracts or even intravenous treatments.

She has also referred me to a different specialist. But her statement above suggests I add more supplements to my routine, as I have already “optimized” adrenal care over the past two years.

I am looking on Amazon now. Any comments or suggestions?


#91

thanks for the updates travelling man. I wonder how effective proviron is at lowering shbg alone solo? I feel you dint give enough time perhaps… I can get proviron legally here in UK and i am contemplating testing it to lower my SHBG @ 72


#92

I’ll be trying proviron + low dose clomid from next week - theory being that proviron on its own would lower total T as well as SHBG but with clomid total T will be maintained or increased and (hopefully) proviron will lower SHBG more than clomid raises it. My SHBG was 95 last test.

I’ll let you know how it goes.


#93

@challie
If you research, you will see where post-after-post state that proviron doesn’t “lower” shbg. Instead it gives the SHBG something to bind to instead of T. In my experiment, it is possible that I didn’t give enough time – however, I don’t think that is the case in my situation. Proviron is called the “boner pill” and when it is working, you should have erections and drive that can be uncomfortable depending on dose. I did not. In the second trial, I used it with Danazol which is not documented anywhere on the web.

@hd44
Please read my previous comment about how proviron acts.

The more reading you do on proviron & erection, the more statements you will find like this:

its not just wood its insane libido.

That was one of the main reasons I tried it; and why it was so disappointing FOR ME. Remember, my hormone situation is different and I do not claim to know better than anyone else. I am only telling MY experience. I still think there is a place for me for proviron, but I haven’t hit a “sweet spot” of anything.

I had planned to stay off danazol and proviron for 30 days then do my labs. I have been doing labs every 30 days. However, I read about the half-life, and it appears 15 days off is more than enough. I go to the lab in the morning, after only 20 days since the last one, because I feel crappy, and want to start the danazol again, now that I have had my pellet insertion.

Thank you for your replies. Please share your results with me.


#94

This study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4732450/ suggests Proviron monotherapy reduces SHBG & total testosterone therefore keeping free testosterone the same. Have a look at table 1.

“The paradoxical reduction in TT (p .012), with no change in cFT, reflects a significant reduction in SHBG due to the suppression of endogenous testosterone synthesis by this form of treatment”

However it does say SHBG drops because testosterone production drops so if testosterone was increased by another method at the same time it probably wouldn’t have the lowering effect. So my Clomid + Proviron experiment is probably doomed for failure unless the benefit of the binding preference of the Proviron is enough to free up some T.

Some other interesting points in the study. They found no correlation between symptoms of low T and total or free T levels and also no correlation between relief of those symptoms after treatment and initial total & free T levels.


#95

I scanned the link you provided … these papers are beyond my ability to comprehend. I am sure I miss more than I pick up from the paper.

I received a chastising on this board for hypothesizing that I should have tried a SHBG reducer such as danazol BEFORE I tried HRT, since all data contradicts that theory. My case was different I believed, because I had HIGH T before taking on TRT. It seems to me you are trying to accomplish the same thing. Even though you may feel it is “doomed to failure” … I think you should try. Or speak to your doctor about Danazol, because I have documented that it substantially reduces shbg.

I expect my new labs Friday or Monday (discountedlabs is the slowest of all). I will post the results and my comments as soon as I receive them.


#96

Dam your doctor guessed pretty dam close.
subscribing to this thread good read, thanks
I look forward to reading more in the future. Nicely done TM.

Since you felt no different did you consider the low SHGB was a lab error and your Free T was a calculation using your TT, the bad SHGB and Albumin?


#97

I am slightly confused about your reply … You referred to a test of “low SHBG” but you quoted a test with high SHBG. I will assume you were referring to a previous lab test of mine where I was at 33.2 SHBG.

Your question was “could it have been a lab error?”. Obviously it COULD have been, but I do not believe it was … for these reasons:

  1. The first month using danazol (50mg), I went to 60.x; the second month of using the same amount of danazol, I had risen slightly to 69.x.

  2. After I stopped danazol and went to proviron, my SHBG skyrocketed to 101.

  3. When I returned to and doubled the danazol to 100mg/day, I dropped to 33.2 – which made sense based on the dosage. And the 1.9% FT% was very confusing because I wasn’t feeling it.

The guys here always say that the numbers aren’t always indicative of what is happening, but they are important to me because of the different treatments I am experimenting with. The numbers are the only way for me to see what is happening in addition to how I feel.


#98

WARNING (So I don’t hurt anyone’s feelings):
My posts reflect MY OPINIONS, MY lab results, MY feelings, and MY notes that I take as part of MY treatment. What I post might contradict what experts say, but I do not assume that I “know better” than any of them. This is MY journey.

LAB RESULTS FROM 8/20/18:
All Danazol & Proviron should have been out of my system (per half-life).
I had my 3rd BIOTe pellet insertion 8-6-18; previous was April.
I tested iron due to common “low iron” symptoms.

Iron and TIBC
Iron Bind.Cap.(TIBC) 335 ug/dL 250 - 450
UIBC 200 ug/dL 111 - 343
Iron 135 ug/dL 38 - 169
Iron Saturation 40 % 15 - 55

DHEA-Sulfate 117.2 ug/dL 48.9 - 344.2
Estradiol, Sensitive 17.3 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0

Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 2093.9 High ng/dL 264.0 - 916.0
Free Testosterone(Direct) 36.5 High pg/mL 7.2 - 24.0
Albumin 4.6 g/dL 3.5 - 5.5
FREE T% CALCULATED: 1.54% LOW

Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 85.6 High nmol/L 19.3 - 76.4

Takeaways:

  1. My SHBG varies widely. I have had more tests in the 80’s than anywhere else. The variance is amazing.

  2. My Iron was acceptable – allowing me to rule out one more thing. I do not supplement iron intake.

  3. DHEA-S is on the “low-side” of normal. I did begin taking an adrenal supplement on the suggestion of my doctor.

  4. Testosterone at 2093: I am being treated with high levels of T because my natural level of T was quite high. The theory is that my T levels were in the 1500-2000 range naturally when I was much younger, which is believed to have naturally counteracted the SHBG. We are trying to prove or disprove this theory.

I believe all cases of high SHBG are different, and mine is about as messed up as can be found. Doctors all say that “increased T will counteract or drive down SHBG”. Based on how I feel, and by looking at the numbers, I do not feel that is true in every case.

The key is how I feel. And there are NO spontaneous erections, and erections still do not last. I am being awakened at 3-4am every day with solid erections, but I don’t feel that is enough of an indicator of how things are working.

  1. Free T at 1.54%
    I am back on 2-50mg Danazol per day. If my SHBG were to drop to 30 again, my free % could potentially double.

I will continue with 100mg Danazol daily plus all supplements and wait for another blood test to determine how much T is being lost each month; and how much the danazol is affecting SHBG.


#99

In my last post, I wrote about the things I can “quantify” - blood results, erection activity, etc.

But I didn’t say “How I feel”.

The first week or 10 days after my pellet insertion, I felt nothing. I was shocked because I knew my levels of T would be very high, and I knew that it only took 48 hours in the past for me to feel any changes.

Gradually, I began to feel better. The way I explain this to my doctor is both stupid and accurate. “I feel the world is brighter, more vibrant”.

Before the boost (pellet insertion), the world around me felt “black and white”; felt bland. I wasn’t excited about anything and had NO drive or energy to do anything. I was lethargic.

After 10 days or so, I begin feeling better. I started doing more and more things, while not realizing I had more energy and drive. That is when I felt the world around me was more “alive”. The feelings of lethargy and/or depression faded. The mental fog was lifted. I realized it had been days since I said “I am tired” during the day.

Testosterone increases someone’s desire for sex; in men, it actually needs to be converted into estrogen by the body to have its full effect,
(https://rightasrain.uwmedicine.org/life/sex/your-sex-drive-normal-probably)

I should have tested my estrogen last cycle, but forgot. After TRT, I have remained in the 24-28 range. This lab cycle returned results of 17. The quote that I attached makes me wonder “How much Testosterone needs to be converted” … in other words, are my E levels too low? Most guys on TRT talk about the “sweet spot” being in the law 20s.

Low testosterone levels may affect your sex drive and your ability to reach orgasm, but they do not have a physiological impact on your ability to achieve or maintain an erection. It is important to understand that erectile dysfunction is primarily a vascular issue, not a hormonal one. 1. Increasing testosterone levels (such as with testosterone therapy) does not increase the strength or frequency of erections.
(https://www.forhims.com/blog/the-low-down-on-testosterone-and-its-role-in-erectile-dysfunction)

I read a lot (out of frustration with my issues) and come across articles that are difficult for me to grasp. The above quote is one that I find difficult to understand, because there is some documentation on TRT returning men to middle of the night or morning wood.

Yet I know guys with very low T levels who still get random erections at a funeral. Sometimes I think about paying for them to have a full blood work up just to see what is different.

I continue to ask … what is it about my hormones that prevent me from firing on all cylinders?


#100

I don’t experience any erections with Free T midrange or 2.86 percent, of course my Total T is only 376. erections become very active when Free T is high normal or over the ranges.

Could your fluctuating SHBG be linked to varying levels of testosterone? If sounds like you’re feeling low and out of gas right before pellet insertion.


#101

Thanks @systemlord … I did read a similar study, and it made me wonder if I should add a Nitric Oxide supplement to my routine … but I haven’t found enough evidence to support whether these supplements are valid or “snake medicine”.

Body builder sites write about its virtue. Consumer labs wrote: “Nitric oxide supplements don’t actually provide nitric oxide, which is a gas, but generally contain L-arginine which can, in some people, increase nitric oxide. Nitric oxide, in turn, potentially increases blood flow to muscles and other organs.”

L-arginine exists already in my daily supplement, although in unknown quantity.

All the referrals I found about the supplement are linked to affiliate payments, so you never know how accurate the reviews are. The Amazon reviews are similar to “my doctor told me to buy this” … but very little review information.

I don’t think so … I have prepared a quick chart to demonstrate the numbers and how they correlate. My SHBG dropped to its lowest ever when I was taking 100mg+ per day … even with 444 T level. This is what made me wonder what I would have felt like if I was at high T level with that low of an SHBG.

Date: T Level SHBG Level
1/2018 778 86.21 before trt
3/2018 1411 97.2 after trt
4/2018 1441 60.4
5/2018 1093 69.3
6/2018 762 101.1 (off danazol)
7/2018 444 33.2 (on 100mg danazol)
8/2018 2093.9 85.6 (off danazol)


#102

That was very interesting topic to read. I allways had higher SHBG, and generaly felt crappy. Two months ago I started keto diet with interminent fasting, and to my surprise I felt like a totally differend person in terms of mood, brain sharpness, energy levels, libido has increased from the tank aswell, erections became much much better.Then I thouhgt I should check whats going on with my hormones (was hoping to see very good results) but to my dissapointment here they are :
E2 - 71 (28-156
Prolactin 210 ( 86-324 )
Testosterone 43,8 (8,6-29) nmol/l
SHBG - 207 (18-54) !!!
I think Im officialy holding record for highest shbg !
In the next test i cheked my thyroid and shbg again. Thyroid looks slow, so its not the couse of high shbg.

T4 77 (66-181)
T3 1.16 (1.3-3.1)
Shbg 221 !?!?!?
Liver ALT 33 (0-40)

What Im going to do is to try implement little bit more carbs to my diet and hopefully that will get it little bit down.