T Nation

High T, FSH, SHBG, Low E2 No Libido. My Lab Results (pellets)

#191

I was re-reading your post today.

Of my 21 pound gain in a year, 60% was since September (slightly over 2 months). As I look back, I find that figure interesting, as I did stop paying so much attention to carbs and began to gradually eat more. But truthfully, I was HUNGRY - it wasn’t a conscious effort to eat more. Third week of September is when I started feeling like a human.

I eat a truckload of fruit - to the point that one doctor thought I might be eating too much. I can’t prove or disprove that the fruit (fructose) was helping to lower my SHBG.

You also mentioned protein. With morning shake supplements and afternoon Quest protein bars in addition to eating meat, I felt that I was getting the protein I needed.

NOTHING affected my SHBG levels except for Boron (only slightly) and Danazol (substantially).

I have also resigned myself to the real-life potential of being a heavier person. That wasn’t what my plan was in life, but when it comes to being skinny, or having a working penis, I choose the latter.

:slight_smile:

I won’t stop TRT. I don’t want to experiment any more. BUT - I still say that I wish I would have tried other treatments before TRT. And even though everyone has drilled it into my head that my testicles would have shut down, I still would have liked to see what would have happened with danazol and increasing my diet first. I was checking my blood every month; I could have started TRT anytime.

Maybe this post will help someone else to consider more possibilities when SHBG is insanely high like mine. Because what I was told - and what I read – that SHBG is driven down by Testosterone – was not correct in my situation.

#192

I wonder if the liver was too busy metabolizing the fructose to crank out SHBG?

#193

going by the Trigs and VLDL, it looks like your liver is doing just fine with the truckload of fruits you’re having.

I’m on 5 bananas, 2 kiwis, 2 apples and 16oz of berry juice a day… doctors need to understand that fructose from fruits isn’t exactly the poison Dr. Lustig is always talking about (he’s actually pro fruit). Your liver appreciates having a full reserve of liver glycogen. You’ll burn it quick.

By the way I think your T protocol is overdosed. You wouldn’t need viagra if you had half those levels, all (major) hormones included. You’re consistently in the 4 digits for total T, you’re above range for free T and total e2 so I’m guessing free e2 is going to be too high. Just reduce the T protocol and shoot for mid range.

I don’t know where you live but 12kIU of vitamin D may be a lot if you want to maintain satisfactory levels. I tested at 93 ng/mL the other week myself, and I backed down to 40kIU e10d. Make sure your K2 intake is high in this scenario.

Obviously using Proviron beyond 12.5mg may have proven to be too much, I’m very sensitive to it and barely need this dose 3 days a week to feel great. More isn’t, has never been, and will never be better when it comes to HRT I’m afraid.

#194

Hi @tontongg, thanks for the comments.

PRIOR to TRT, I maintained a T level always above 1000 (sometimes as high as 1300). The internet world all believe that my levels were “artificially high” because of SHBG. The doctors believe my T levels are an anomaly and were probably over 3000 when I was a teen.

I feel my best when I stay over 1500. With pellets, to stay higher than that for my cycle, I must start higher. However, I continue to check blood levels and chart how I feel. As part of my testing, I got down to 762 and 444 and wanted to die.

After the blood let, my Asian doctor complained about the Vit D levels, especially with the ALP going so low (without explanation). I have reduced vit D by 2/3, taking about (?) 3000iu per day.

By the way, you can see a better picture of the Estrogens in the 24-hour urine hormone panel here.

Blood tests will be the first week of December.

#195

Alright alright

The older I get the more I understand the mantra “treat symptoms not numbers”. I’m not convinced high (free) Androgens is a desirable place to be in but if that’s how you feel best then np

Low E2 All Parts of Cycle (Pellets)
#196

If you have been following this journey, you know that for the past year+, I have been having full blood hormone panels performed every 4 weeks. It has helped to get a handle on what is going on in my body.

But I feel as though things are leveling out, and I decided to cut back to every six weeks, working my way to every three months, to coincide with the week before pellet re-insertion.

Today was blood day. And as the results begin trickling in, I find myself surprised at some of the results.

  1. For multiple blood cycles, my “alkaline phosphatase” was unusually high, as well as my HDL-C, which was also low, which neither doctor was happy with. My Asian doctor asked me to cut down my Vitamin D by 2/3 (to 4000iu), which I agreed. In conjunction, my HDL-C was also low.

The latest results show my Alkaline Phosphatase returning to normal (46 on a 35-129 scale); and my HDL-C moving to 54 on a >35 scale.

I did not make any other changes except the reduction of vit D.

  1. Even with the substantial reduction in Vitamin D supplements, my test levels showed >70 on a >29 scale. That is not good and makes me think I need to lower the intake even more. I am getting substantially more sun right now, and that may be something I will have to consider as I plan supplements in the future. The goal was to get me in the 45-50 range.

panel%202%20vit%20d

  1. DHEA-S INCREASED even though I cut the amount of DHEA supplementation in half. I was at a reasonable 263.7 in the previous test; 403 on this test (on a scale of 51-295. That is a real shock.

  1. Hematocrit. A month back, I had a blood let because my hematocrit was at 53, and my doctor was in a panic about that number. She won’t be happy with this test result either. Hematocrit INCREASED to 55.7. Red blood cells count was also high.

What bothers me the most about this is: “A high hematocrit with a high RBC count and high hemoglobin indicates polycythemia. … Dehydration”. I seriously monitor my intake of water. The only time I can be dehydrated is in the early morning when I can’t have liquid after midnight because of this test.

Nowhere on the web does it talk about taking an afternoon blood test to confirm dehydration.

  1. Estradiol. I was slightly high last test, but I wanted it higher in order to find my sweet spot and see overall how I was feeling. Remember that ultra-sensitive tests are not available in Asia, so my regular E2 test came back at 69.8 on a scale of 25-60. That is about the same amount higher (by percentage) than I was last cycle. It is possible that I should return to 2 dim daily instead of one.

I am feeling pretty good however with the slightly elevated E2.

panel%205%20-%20estradiol

  1. Asian doctor asked me to add a few tests, including GGT (Gamma Glutamyltransferase) which is a liver based test. It was normal at 20 on a 10-66 scale. “GGT is elevated in the blood in most diseases that cause damage to the liver or bile ducts”. Doctors also use the test to see if the patient might be under-reporting alcohol use (I don’t drink).

  1. SHBG increased to 40.55 which I am not happy to see. The only difference in what I am doing is that I am taking Danazol in 100mg capsules at 6pm each day; if I was in the USA, I take a 50mg early morning, and another 50mg at 6pm. I do not understand how that could effect my numbers.

  2. The rise in SHBG caused a decrease in Free Testosterone, which was 2.2% this time. If my SHBG had remained at 30 like before, I would be at a 2.5% ft.

  3. Testosterone was 1435. That is a similar drop to my last insertion. Based on previous testing, the increased SHBG will cause my testosterone to deplete faster which could mean that I will have lower T levels than I am comfortable with at the end of the cycle. Keeping my SHBG lower causes my T levels to remain higher for a longer time.

  1. (Still missing one test)
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Vitamin & Protein Supplements - My Experiences
#197

Hell of a write up. Keep us posted.

#198

I received the final results to day for Vitamin B6 (also requested by Asian doctor).

As you see, I am between 6-7 times higher than the top of the scale.

My multi vitamin has 30mg B-6, and my Adrenal Support supplement has 10mg. I would not have imagined that I could be so far out of range … I am NOT taking any other Vit B supplements.

From a web site:

If your level is high, however, unless you are taking high doses of B6, then it usually means that you are actually DEFICIENT in Vitamin B6, as you’ll see below. For most people, it’s safe to take as much as 200-500 mg per day, and toxicity almost never occurs at levels lower than 1000 mg per day. Ironically, high B6 levels in blood will decrease and return to NORMAL when sufficient amounts of P5P are taken to remedy the deficiency.

What??? Over 18 months ago, I was taking 50mg of P5P daily (the active ingredient/enzyme of Vit b6 that is easier for the body to process) but stopped as I felt it was doing nothing.

Here comes a doctor’s visit …

#199

Any out-of-whack results make me start reading.

  1. My Estrogen and SHBG levels
    In most people, Estrogen and SHBG rise and fall together. In my case, they did not. My E was very low and my SHBG was very high – which completely confused the doctors.

Is it possible that my body is changing, and my higher E is translating to higher SHBG?

  1. My high DHEA
    I found patient reports that correlated higher than normal DHEA levels “converting” to E2, making E2 also rise higher. And high DHEA levels added to weight gain.

I can’t claim to have any side effects of high DHEA; but the possibility that my weight gain and my increase in E2 might be tied to it, makes me consider dropping the supplement for a while until I perform the next blood tests.

When I look back at my saliva hormone test, my DHEA-S was considered LOW, not high, which adds more confusion.

My urine test showed me 20 times higher than top of scale. Go figure.

  1. HDL C
    If you are bored enough to have been keeping up, you will remember that I had multiple blood tests where my HDL-C was low. Today I found a study where DANAZOL is known to reduce HDL-C.

I thought it might be due to my high Vit D levels (which I believe explained the out of balance Alkaline Phosphatase levels). But further reading tells me this might be a regular result on my tests as long as I take Danazol.

But, as I said in the last post, a doctor’s visit is necessary in hopes of clarifying some of these issues. I intend to stop DHEA for now.

I still feel good … with regular morning wood. I do not have unlimited energy (mental or physical) nor do I have the desire to lift any cars for fun. Compared to a year ago, I’m doing great. Hopefully tweaking the supplements will continue to make me improve.

#200

@traveling man, you may find this interesting:

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Low E2 All Parts of Cycle (Pellets)
#201

I think you are in wrong place chasing down all those numbers and trying to find one magic pill.
You should consider cheking yourself for something much more major like metabolic syndrome, prediabetis/type2 diabetis, and insulin resistance. Its not easy to find out just by cheking fasting bloog glucose.
Hemaglobin a1c, oral glucose tolerance test should be made.

#202

Thank you for your comment. I would love to find ONE pill … but anyone who has read my thread on the supplements I take would know that isn’t the case. LOL

metabolic syndrome
According to the NCEP ATP III definition, metabolic syndrome is present if three or more of the following five criteria are met: waist circumference over 40 inches (men) or 35 inches (women), blood pressure over 130/85 mmHg, fasting triglyceride (TG) level over 150 mg/dl, fasting high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol level less than 40 mg/dl (men) or 50 mg/dl (women) and fasting blood sugar over 100 mg/dl.
-waist 31
-no increased blood pressure, consistently normal/low (105/68)
-do not have high blood sugar; tested dozens of times
-Triglycerides in normal range
-ONLY HDL went below 40 for 2 blood cycles; which is explainable by supplements; and returned to normal when supplements stopped.

Prediabetes
-glucose has been from 75-90 for the past six years (that I checked).

  • Prediabetes is defined as a fasting blood glucose of 100 mg/dl to 125 mg/dl followed by a blood glucose of 140 mg/dl to 199 mg/dl at two hours, checked on more than one occasion.

Type 2 diabetes
-A1C (aka HbA1C) tested two separate occasions and both normal.
Doctors confirm no risk of diabetes visible.

  • Diabetes is defined as a fasting blood glucose of 126 mg/dl to higher followed by a blood glucose of 200 mg/dl or higher at two hours.

Insulin resistance
-glucose levels always under 100.
I have not taken the sugary drink insulin resistance test, although I did take the intestinal permeability test (lactulose).

#203

Blood Work 1-16-19 …

Prior to this blood work, I increased dim to 2 per day; continued to reduce vitamin d from 4000 to 2000/day; eliminated dhea completely.


Estradiol increased slightly. This is one of the strangest parts of monitoring my hormones. For years during my issues, my Estradiol was SUPER LOW. Now it is higher (borderline HIGH) and I’m feeling better.


Hematocrit rose again! I caught a virus during this time which I am GUESSING is why my RBC was high trying to fight what I had.

I still plan to test HCT in the afternoon - but I want to control the experiment and have it tested in the morning and the afternoon of the same day by the same lab. Coming soon.


I am still surprised that my Alkaline Phosphatase, LDL/HDL are all back to normal after I eliminated the ultra high dose of Vitamin D. I am back in the US now, which means I will need slightly more Vitamin D than when I was in Asia, but I will stay away from the intense dose I was taking.


Testosterone is 1473. My free T percentage is not as high as my goal and that was disappointing – only 2.4%.


SHBG decreased slightly to 37.38. I am on danazol every day but for the past 90 days, I have been on 100mg per day in one capsule. I am back in the USA on my 50mg x 2 per day and am interested to see if there is a difference in test results based on a most constant amount of the steroid in my body. This is NOT the lowest I have been as I went down to 27.3 one time.

I am a sucker for punishment, so I have decided to see how long I can go before my next insertion since I have not interrupted the Danazol in months. The last time I tried this, I was on and off Danazol and I felt like total shit as I hit month four. But my T insertion dose was lower as well.

I would like to see if I could make it at least five months before needing the insertion. I will never know until I try - and the higher starting dose might make it possible … although I am not confident I can make it past the fourth month. I am at the end of my third month right now.

Hematocrit: How High is Life Threatening?
#204

Excellent.

Fill me in on the dropping the bit D dose to affect Alk. phos, LDL/HDL. What is the correlation here?

#205

In my Oct 18 post, I started looking for corollaries between Low Alkaline Phosphatase and ANYTHING that I might be doing to cause this change. I found one reference which tied it to excess vitamin D; but the poster also gave a dozen other possible reasons.

My Asian doctor wanted me off the Vit D. She felt my numbers were too high (borderline toxic), and was likely throwing other numbers out of balance. I took her advice and my results returned to normal.

In December, I found a study linking Danazol to a reduction of HDL-C; For me, it appears at this time that Danazol wasn’t my issue - but increased Vit D (and possibly increased DHEA-S) was. My American doctor also agreed “He was surprised to see HDL go low, but agreed with my research that Testosterone and Steroids can artificially lower this number, when none of the other reasons fit.”

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#206

I mentioned before that I wanted to take a Hematocrit test twice in a day; once in the morning after fasting; and once in the evening. I had those tests yesterday but have not received the results yet.

I also added a “Lactate dehydrogenase (LDH)” test. I had read that this might be a good test to show whether there is any overall “cell damage” (tissue damage) in my system (liver specifically).

Lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) is an enzyme that helps the process of turning sugar into energy for your cells to use. When illness or injury damages your cells, LDH may be released into the bloodstream, causing the level of LDH in your blood to rise. High levels of LDH in the blood point to acute or chronic cell damage.

Low levels of LDH affect how the body breaks down sugar for energy, particularly in muscle cells. It is very uncommon for an individual to have low LDH levels or a lactate dehydrogenase deficiency.

To detect high levels of lactate in the blood , which may be an indication of lack of oxygen (hypoxia) or the presence of other conditions that cause excess production or insufficient clearing of lactate from the blood

BTW, I used “Ulta Wellness” labs this time because they were running a special of $12.95 for a CBC test.

In reading about the results, “119” is considered normal, even though it is at the lower end of the spectrum. Below 80 is where evidence of damage is shown. “Normal” ranges across the internet are from 100-333.

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#207

god I love bargains

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#208

Holy shit there is one in my town!

Edit: Oh I see now…you can order the tests and get it done at Quest. Perfect.
E2 + Total T + Free T = $69 Yes please!

#209

I now have the tests, separated by 8 hours and proved my theory WRONG. I theorized that my HCT was high in the morning because I had not consumed water in 10 hours which fit the theory that others had – that I was dehydrated.

Now with an afternoon test where I was fully hydrated, I know that isn’t the case. Although it eliminates one diagnosis, it creates more concern.

I charted my hematocrit back to Oct 2013 (which is the oldest results I previously scanned). Prior to TRT, my HCT averaged 44.3%, with highs of 47.8 and 49.3. My post TRT average is 51.9%.

My Hemoglobin has also shown a slow rise as well.

I found an interesting study …

Optimum values in an adult male are: Hemoglobin 14–18 gm/dL and hematocrit 40.0% to 54.0% Source and Source

EPO (Erythropoietin) Tests? High Hematocrit
Hematocrit: How High is Life Threatening?
Aspirin Before CBC Test to Affect Hematocrit?
#210

That’s cheap. Discounted labs was about 80 for these three.

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