That sounds too low., you’re pretty close to the bottom end of the range already. Also your free T is way above range I wouldn’t have thought you need to lower SHBG any further. Good to know Danozol is very effective at lowering it though. It’s just a shame it goes back up because I don’t think I want to take it for life. It can be bad for Liver enzymes according to my doctor. Maybe that has something to do with your Alkaline Phosphatase? That’s liver related isn’t it? Perhaps someone more medically minded can step in.
Anyway great to hear you’re feeling good. Hope it carries on.
This is probably because your SHBG has dropped so much. It extends the half life of testosterone so a big drop in SHBG should see a drop in total testosterone as far as I understand it. My guess would be if you now maintain that level of lower SHBG your T will decrease at a normal rate until your next pellet.
Higher SHBG makes testosterone stick around in the blood for longer whereas lower SHBG means more of the T is free to be used/metabolised or whatever happens to it when not bound to SHBG. and so leaves the blood quicker. Which is one reason why guys with high SHBG always have high total T.
DIsclaimer: Not sure that @physiologik agrees with this so it could all be BS!
I understand it the way you have written. Guys with High T and High SBHG are always told that their T levels are “falsely elevated”. I didn’t know better in the beginning or I would have tested that theory by going to Danazol first - before TRT - just to witness what happens when SHBG is reduced. It should have reduced T if the theory holds, and that would have been interesting to document.
I tried to read the report you linked to but grasping the message was way behind my comprehension.
This comment really interests me … and I’ll be watching closely because I will continue with Danazol. If your comment is accurate, I should not drop more than 20% (give or take) at my next blood work.
Just out of interest, how well does your body process alcohol? My liver is very inefficient at processing alcohol and I get very severe hangovers. I used to binge drink a lot and have spent so much time in my life in an incredibly hungover state essentially poisoned. I can’t help thinking it is related despite my liver blood test being normal. I have also read other posts of guys with high SHBG saying they get unusually bad hangovers.
I’m getting my genome sequenced too to see if there is any genetic markers relating to SHBG (not just for that, hoping to find out other useful information about my health).
Another theory I had was environmental estrogens raising SHBG. Normal estrogen raises it so why not fake estrogen. I’m making an effort to try and cut out as much as possible. Pretty difficult though.
That is an interesting comment @hd44. I gave up drinking more than 10 years ago. I was only an occasional drinker - but a binge party drinker when I did partake. I don’t recall hangovers being anything more than “uncomfortable” stupid reminders of what I did the previous night.
I stopped drinking completely when my body changed how it accepted (processed?) the alcohol. When I drank prevously, I was a happy go-lucky drinker who was content smiling and dancing in a corner all by my inebriated self. One day however, everything changed, and I became angry, hateful and mean when drinking; not a smart choice for me. I stopped drinking immediately.
Three years ago I agreed to go on a birthday party bar hop and agreed to drink with the birthday group. Surrounded by a group of friends, I had no issues with anger, and made it safely through the night. The next three days were not kind to me and I did not leave my apartment because the recovery was miserable.
I don’t know what any of this means and how it relates, but your question was very interesting and made me think. Thanks for bringing this up.
Except in my case, I had low estrogen and high SHBG. My numbers dumb-founded everyone because they didn’t move in unison like they should.
I’m quoting my post of 5 days ago to bring this point forward. Five more days have passed and I still feel unusually good. I do not feel “normal” as in the years before these problems, but I am feeling more alive than I have.
Considering how weird (bad?) my last blood labs were, I’m cautious about this progress. I want to see my doctor and review all of this, but I still don’t have my Estradiol test results and I won’t make an appt with incomplete results.
Without seeing an example, I really don’t know - because I am so close to it. I am trying to think of changes that I have made …
I have stopped and started Danazol twice - but I have had three blood tests during that time to verify the results. Same with Proviron. I also stopped 80% of all supplements and did multiple blood tests to see what was changing.
I am interested to know what you see that I have changed so quickly. Your perspective might help me see things differently. Thanks
I’m quoting myself again … because I have figured out something else that changed. I am up 15 pounds in weight since January. Of that, I put on 8 of those pounds from Sept 1 to now. And it isn’t muscle weight – and I haven’t intentionally changed my eating parameters except that I have allowed myself to eat more carbs.
So I have been all over the map. My T levels were still up (1210), and SHBG was still down (29.8) when I had this test performed. Cutting my DIM in half didn’t appear to cause my Estradiol to increase as I anticipated. (It increased, but because SHBG went down so much - I can’t tell that dim had any effect).
I’m 2 weeks from additional blood work; and 3 weeks from a pellet boost.
Considering fructose’s potent reduction of SHBG, and insulin as well, I think it’s interesting that no one ever told you to EAT MORE CARBS (as in, fruits primarily)
Oh, and proteins, too.
I’m the same low e2, low free T %, high SHBG type of guy. I wasn’t eating enough, I was training hard, there’s no mystery. At the time, just like your docs, I thought that the solution was TRT, and I eventually came off when I realized how bad my self diagnosis was (those were good years on the juice though). TRT won’t do shit to lower SHBG. It will improve your free T levels though, obviously.
Now that I’m still using SERMs on and off, I get a slow raise in hormones… and the side effects you describe when I’m on the SERMs. It’s crystal clear that your problem is either lifestyle or diet. Because that’s always pretty much the same story.
I’m a pharmacist, and no pharmaceuticals will fix a metabolic disorder.
Insulin regulates testosterone and sex hormone-binding globulin concentrations in adult normal weight and obese men. (R Pasquali and al.)
Abstract : There are no studies in vivo on the effects of insulin on androgens and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) in men. We, therefore, investigated the effects of insulin suppression on testosterone and SHBG in two groups of eight nondiabetic adult obese men and six healthy normal weight men who underwent diazoxide treatment (100 mg, three times daily) for 7 days. […] In conclusion, these results indicate that in vivo, insulin is capable of stimulating testosterone production and, simultaneously, of inhibiting SHBG concentrations in both normal weight and obese men.
your high urinary cortisol also indicates that you’re not eating enough carbs IMO. Could be Gluconeogenesis 101 right before your very eyes. And the best way to stop GNG would be more Glycogenolysis = more liver glycogen = more fruits. Circling around