T Nation

High T Bulking Diet


#1

Dear Fellow T-Mates:

My doc recently put me on T implants (I'm 63), good for around six months. Immediately my skin started getting real oily + got facial zits. I noticed good pumps from the workouts. After six weeks went back for a T level and it had gone from 600 to 1640.

In seven weeks, using the HST program I actually put 1.5 inches on my upper arm (from 15 to 16.5), measured twice by me and twice by my wife to insure accuracy. I know my doc will not be putting in as many pellets next time around so I want to take advantage of the 2.5 plus increase in T while I can. Any and all diet suggestions would be most welcome.

Thanks.

doctornorm


#2

Food.Seriously, not much else you need to gain weight. Or if you’re feeling racy, lots of food.


#3

Thanks, man–true enough. I’ve made this mistake in the past, working out hard and using things such as MAG-10, etc., but barely upping my calories and usually focusing too much on protein to the exclusion of carbs. With all of the current focus on using carbs to spike insulin, I’m taking a whole new look at the quantity, type and use of carbs in my diet. Apparently there is a whole lot more there than meets the eye. I suspect that the new Anaconda is going to play a role here as a pre and post workout insulin spiker.

Regards,

Norman


#4

This may be coincidence but, I really think red meat/fish has a noticable impact on T-levels.

For example, there have been times where I couldn’t afford steak at all and just had chicken/turkey as my only meat sources for 2 weeks. I felt kinda low on energy and my libido was not the greatest either.

Then I had some money come through and just swapped all my chicken out for steak (2lb a day) and I started feeling much more vivacious the next few days.

I notice this to a small degree with eggs/fish oil too.


#5

Thanks for the reply. I totally agree, dude. When I eat more red meat I feel stronger and more aggressive in the gym. I know it could be placebo effect, but it has happened enough times that I feel pretty strongly that I can rule that out.

N


#6

A ZMA supp will probably help as well, I get better sleep when I take one which is probably important.


#7

Red meat has zinc, b-vits etc that meats like chicken tend to be lacking in.


#8

i suggest you go to the over-35 forum. They have some VERY knowledgeable posters on TRT and training over there. you will be at home there i swear :wink:


#9

[quote]doctornorm wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I totally agree, dude. When I eat more red meat I feel stronger and more aggressive in the gym. I know it could be placebo effect, but it has happened enough times that I feel pretty strongly that I can rule that out.

N[/quote]

Both of you - shut up!!

Please don’t tell me that you get ‘roid rage’ from eating red meat!?

That alone is enough to have me close my account right now.


#10

What’s Roid Rage? Ha! Myth in my book. As for the tip regarding the over 35 forum, have already done so, so many thanks.


#11

[quote] Brook wrote:
doctornorm wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I totally agree, dude. When I eat more red meat I feel stronger and more aggressive in the gym. I know it could be placebo effect, but it has happened enough times that I feel pretty strongly that I can rule that out.

N

Both of you - shut up!!

Please don’t tell me that you get ‘roid rage’ from eating red meat!?

That alone is enough to have me close my account right now.[/quote]

It’s probably the creatine rage man, serially.


#12

My girlfriend told me she can’t even deal with my temper while I’ on a steak cycle :frowning:


#13

LMAO! STEAK CYCLE!

Docnorm - not sure if you are being sarcastic - but did you get any help in over 35? Cause i know for a fact that there are posters there who DO currently eat to maximise their results while on TRT - TRT from 100mg/wk all the way upto 300mg/wk!

Considering you are wanting to ‘make the most’ of this Test’rone dose - have you considered doing either a cycle of AAS or at least ‘supplementing’ your prescription/implants with another 100mg/wk of Test’rone Enanthate or something?
Not saying you should or anything - just putting it out there for an old fella :wink:


#14

I was thinking about seeing my Dr about TRT, any tips on how to go about getting my Dr to agree to write a script much appreciated.
Doctornorm how did you do it (besides fact you are 63 y/o)


#15

Hey, Brook, you’re the man. I like the LMAO re. steaks. Yeah, I certainly did follow your advice as far as going to the OTH gang. Good info. As far as your current suggestion, well, yeah, I do have ‘in stock’ two 10 ml. bottles of test. cyp. I also have in the ol collection four bottles of Biotest 4-AD-EC. And there’s always a little trenbolone floating around in the refrigerator as I live in the country and have cows that need to be topped off once in a while. My only question would be how far to push things. My current T level is 1640 and will probably remain there for at least the next two months if not longer.

If I was going to ‘supplement’ that with some test cyp, the question would be how much, and quite frankly, I don’t know the anwswer to that question. I’m not afraid to push the limits, so that’s not an issue. My question would be what would be the optimal way to go as far as what I have available. Do you think that an additional 100 mg. per week IM would really kick things up? I have enough to do that for the next four months. Would probably not do it straight through, but could do two eight week add-on cycles with a break in between.

To Ruged: Well, obviously it’s certainly easier when life affords you the categorical shift into the ‘old goat’ crowd. Nonetheless, the main thing is the physician’s philosophy. Try to find a life extension doc or an antiaging doc, or as mine calls himself, a doctor of integrative medicine. These tend to be practitioners who will prescribe herbs, supplements,acupuncture,prolotherapy, HRT, etc. They tend to be more liberal and to not be as dogmatic. I’ve studied AAS for forty years and I can tell you that 99.9% of doctors and pharmacists don’t know jack shit about AAS. The guys on the BB and AAS forums are head and shoulders above physicians on this stuff. The U.S. mentality is pathetic. If something can be abused then we have to outlaw it. How about all of the fucking land whales steaming about the buffet lines all over our land? I see people every day of the week who easily weigh in at 350-400 pounds. I don’t see congress banning Big Macs or Whoppers, but I can’t go out as a knowledgeable adult and buy a vial of Deca. What complete and utter total bullshit.

Don’t assume that you have to go with an expensive corporate antiaging doc–there are private practitioners all over who do this but are not affiliated with a major antiaging corporation.

Many thanks to you guys for your feedback and questions.

N


#16

OMG, 1 1/2 inches on your arms at 63!!! My god man that is amazing!!! If I ever decide to do roids I guess now I know it’s nevar too late, lol!

Way to be man! Gotta keep us posted on your results, start a log or something!


#17

[quote]doctornorm wrote:
Hey, Brook, you’re the man. I like the LMAO re. steaks. Yeah, I certainly did follow your advice as far as going to the OTH gang. Good info. As far as your current suggestion, well, yeah, I do have ‘in stock’ two 10 ml. bottles of test. cyp. I also have in the ol collection four bottles of Biotest 4-AD-EC. And there’s always a little trenbolone floating around in the refrigerator as I live in the country and have cows that need to be topped off once in a while. My only question would be how far to push things. My current T level is 1640 and will probably remain there for at least the next two months if not longer.

If I was going to ‘supplement’ that with some test cyp, the question would be how much, and quite frankly, I don’t know the anwswer to that question. I’m not afraid to push the limits, so that’s not an issue. My question would be what would be the optimal way to go as far as what I have available. Do you think that an additional 100 mg. per week IM would really kick things up? I have enough to do that for the next four months. Would probably not do it straight through, but could do two eight week add-on cycles with a break in between.

To Ruged: Well, obviously it’s certainly easier when life affords you the categorical shift into the ‘old goat’ crowd. Nonetheless, the main thing is the physician’s philosophy. Try to find a life extension doc or an antiaging doc, or as mine calls himself, a doctor of integrative medicine. These tend to be practitioners who will prescribe herbs, supplements,acupuncture,prolotherapy, HRT, etc. They tend to be more liberal and to not be as dogmatic. I’ve studied AAS for forty years and I can tell you that 99.9% of doctors and pharmacists don’t know jack shit about AAS. The guys on the BB and AAS forums are head and shoulders above physicians on this stuff. The U.S. mentality is pathetic. If something can be abused then we have to outlaw it. How about all of the fucking land whales steaming about the buffet lines all over our land? I see people every day of the week who easily weigh in at 350-400 pounds. I don’t see congress banning Big Macs or Whoppers, but I can’t go out as a knowledgeable adult and buy a vial of Deca. What complete and utter total bullshit.

Don’t assume that you have to go with an expensive corporate antiaging doc–there are private practitioners all over who do this but are not affiliated with a major antiaging corporation.

Many thanks to you guys for your feedback and questions.

N[/quote]

Well - i use AAS and i post regularly over in the ‘Steroids’ section - you might want to take those queries over there to avoid getting too off topic.

However i know that your current level is around the HIGH natural level - so of course if looking for supra-physiological levels we have some room for ‘improvement’ :wink:

I would not say that you should dose 100mg Test C for 3 months or any extended time. I would say that the best idea would be:

Use your TRT dosing as your base… so time between ‘cycles’ is ‘supplemented’ with your TRT levels.
Use your stockpile (me and you both) to create short cycles of higher doses.

Before you do all this i would suggest you get a source for Anastrazole - the Anti-Aromatase drug. This (or any AI) is fundamental to anyone using Testosterone - whether TRT doses or higher.

HOWEVER - and this is important - you are getting on mate (!) so it is not a good idea to use very androgenic compounds like Trenbolone - as you may or may not know Tren is 5x more androgenic that Test, and as such is highly likely to cause prostate hypertrophy - especially in older men.
All this in mind i would suggest you add 1-200mg of Cyp for 6 weeks and see how you respond. The AI is important, as estrogen too has a role in prostate hypertrophy.

Dosing would be ~100mg 2x/wk to keep levels stable, and you would attempt to achieve a peak dose immediately (as it takes time for the drug levels to build due to the half life) by dosing around 300mg on the first day IF you dose 100mg 2x/wk. If you dose 50mg 2x/wk then the frontload dose would be nearer 150mg (3x incremental dose = frontload).

As for nthe Biotest PH - i can’t comment as i don’t know enough about that PH and its side effects/A:A ratio.


#18

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
This may be coincidence but, I really think red meat/fish has a noticable impact on T-levels.

For example, there have been times where I couldn’t afford steak at all and just had chicken/turkey as my only meat sources for 2 weeks. I felt kinda low on energy and my libido was not the greatest either.

Then I had some money come through and just swapped all my chicken out for steak (2lb a day) and I started feeling much more vivacious the next few days.

I notice this to a small degree with eggs/fish oil too.[/quote]

this may be a result of red meats and fish being fattier than poultry. next time you’re strapped for cash, try adding in some outside fats to your poultry (egg yolk, shot of EVOO or other oil, big scoop of peanut or almond butter, walnuts, etc). i would be curious to see if you still felt sluggish.

or we can just accept that eating lots of red meat is about the most manly thing to do.


#19

Hey, my dad just turned 59 this year, and was asking me about testosterone supplementation. I told him it would really help out with his quality of life (he’s been losing muscle mass over the past few year).

I was wondering, how did you go about getting the supplementation? He’s not going to go do it himself, so if I can provide him with as much information as possible, he might decide to.

This would really help I’d love it if my dad could have a better life because of this.

Thanks for ANY help you can provide, at all.


#20

Doctor. This isn’t ‘supplementation’ it is Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT), and is more appropriate in the Over 35 lifter forum :wink: