Waterloo: I know EXACTLY what you’re talking about. I too am at a screen all day and experience the same thing during FS and DLs. I believe it’s due to the stretch put on the neck muscles from these exercises. Heavy spinal compression exercises traction the cervical spine a bit as they pull down on the passive structures of the shoulders and back. I ran it by a friendly PT and she said not to worry as long as it’s not accompanied by neuro symptoms eg: tingling in hands and arms, sudden weakness, etc.
Currently, high rep FS means 5 x 10-12 at %65 - %80 of my training max. I’ve also done 50 and 100 rep sets for time as well as 50 rep front squats from pins for time which is the bomb giggity. I set an app on my phone to beep every 25 seconds or so and knock out 17 triples. I love the way the fatigue accumulates over time, but you can still stay tight and focus on each cluster of reps.
Front squats from pins has long been a favorite of mine. I believe it helps with the DL although that may be my little bit of broscience.
I have never used the front squat seriously so I can’t say much on the matter. On the issue of desk duty…I raised my desk and began standing the entire work day in the fall of 2009. (w/the exception of meals & meetings) I was 46…it has been one of the best decisions I’ve ever made; I wish I had done it fifteen years sooner.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I have never used the front squat seriously so I can’t say much on the matter. On the issue of desk duty…I raised my desk and began standing the entire work day in the fall of 2009. (w/the exception of meals & meetings) I was 46…it has been one of the best decisions I’ve ever made; I wish I had done it fifteen years sooner.
[/quote]
It’s been that good of a change?
Edit:
Just asked my boss for a standing desk. We’ll see if I can get one…
I can’t be bothered with going into details, but let me ask you: Why should anyone use front squats instead of back squats or leg press for quad hypertrophy (not talking about posture issues)?
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
I can’t be bothered with going into details, but let me ask you: Why should anyone use front squats instead of back squats or leg press for quad hypertrophy (not talking about posture issues)?[/quote]
more quad, less glutes
For me its a back issue. Two herniated discs in my lumbar/sacral region. Can’t take the spinal compression. Front squats cause no issue. Can’t speak for the rest.
The front squat produces higher muscle activation in the vastus lateralis and rectus femoris compared to the back squat, and there is little to no difference in muscle activation in the vastus medialis.
A BIOMECHANICAL COMPARISON OF BACK AND
FRONT SQUATS IN HEALTHY TRAINED INDIVIDUALS
JONATHAN C. GULLETT, MARK D. TILLMAN, GREGORY M. GUTIERREZ, AND JOHN W. CHOW
Department of Applied Physiology and Kinesiology, University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida
Also: Emg Study of Front and Back Squats - Powerlifting & Strength Sports - Forums - T Nation
Also, iirc, Yogi is 6’2" and I’m 6’ with long arms and legs. I don’t think its a coincidence that we both prefer FS.
Nick Tumminello: As for squatting, I?ve found that a switch to the front squat does well to accommodate the long femurs that impair deep range of motion in other variations. Because of the front load, it?s easier to ?lean against? the weight and use it as a counterbalance to achieve a nice, deep depth. Tall guys may notice that they get more glute activity just from doing front squats alone, simply because of the greater distance they need to extend the hips.
Lee Boyce: I recommend front squatting over back squatting because poor ankle mobility, long femurs, and a bar loaded on the back is a recipe for a squat that resembles a good morning. A front load can encourage a vertical torso position, which will help tall guys get the most out of their squat.
[quote]Yogi wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
I can’t be bothered with going into details, but let me ask you: Why should anyone use front squats instead of back squats or leg press for quad hypertrophy (not talking about posture issues)?[/quote]
more quad, less glutes[/quote]
Most leg press machines are awful. Way too much plate loading is required, and at the gym I’m lifting at right now, there aren’t enough plates available to make leg pressing worthwhile. So training economy is a big issue there. Leg press also bothers my back.
I do think back squats have been sufficient for substantial quad growth for me. 80-90% of my squatting is back-squatting. These days I’m mostly squatting with a very high bar position, Oly shoes, and as much depth as possible. For me, this leads to substantial quad recruitment.
That being said, I think I’d probably be well served by moving to more of a 60/40 split of back/front squats, given that my goals are not strictly powerlifting-based.
[quote]Yogi wrote:
And it’s funny you say about not jumping people straight into it, as I’ve always thought it quite logical. It’s just a step up from goblet squats which’d likely be the first squat you showed someone. Know what I mean?[/quote]
Yep, I gotcha. And I do sort of agree which is why I was saying ‘after a base is built’, as in, once you know they have solid mobility, technique, and some basic conditioning, a beginner can be progressed into moderate to higher rep front squats (presuming that’s goal- and program-appropriate).
FWIW, Dan Blewett compared the pros and cons of the front and goblet squat:
In it, he mentions avoiding front squats in the 10-15 rep range, but as said earlier, I disagree on that point.
I prefer to hold the straps with front squats and I think you can better engage the whole arm/shoulder/upper back chain by actively pulling on the straps to keep tension, instead of “just” using it to hold on.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
I can’t be bothered with going into details, but let me ask you: Why should anyone use front squats instead of back squats or leg press for quad hypertrophy (not talking about posture issues)?[/quote]
Someone like me with long femurs the squat is more of a posterior chain exercise no matter what way you slice it unless you cut depth in half. Narrow stance sitting straight down is still mostly glute.
Front squats are almost all quad and feel amazing even with my retard structure. And if you do sld and Deads and or GHR then you are hitting your posterior chain why do the back squat that is at best a half quad half glute exercise or for me worse more like all glute barely any quad. When you can do front squats and do a much more quad focus and hit the glutes and hamstring more focused with straight leg Deads and GHR
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I have never used the front squat seriously so I can’t say much on the matter. On the issue of desk duty…I raised my desk and began standing the entire work day in the fall of 2009. (w/the exception of meals & meetings) I was 46…it has been one of the best decisions I’ve ever made; I wish I had done it fifteen years sooner.
[/quote]
It’s been that good of a change?
Edit:
Just asked my boss for a standing desk. We’ll see if I can get one…[/quote]
Yes; major improvement in my overall sense of well being, reduced DOMS & joint stiffness, improved between meal digestion, etc.
I can attest to the ‘improved posture’. Started doing them on Lower Body Strength day, been 4 weeks now. Currently at 105 1RM. I moved to front squats as back squats just hurt my shoulder, as if it was being twisted at the join. Had been back squatting since I started but for the last 2-3 months this new very annoying habit kicked in (desk worker now for 4 yrs), so was forced to change. I had tried narrower and wider grips, sadly to no avail.
Don’t like not lifting as much, but the quad burn is sensational, and much needed. Last week did sets on 50% of 1RM, and really felt it. Would I rather have my back squat “back”, yes, do I prefer them, yes, but I like having an alternative and it seems to be working.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I have never used the front squat seriously so I can’t say much on the matter. On the issue of desk duty…I raised my desk and began standing the entire work day in the fall of 2009. (w/the exception of meals & meetings) I was 46…it has been one of the best decisions I’ve ever made; I wish I had done it fifteen years sooner.
[/quote]
It’s been that good of a change?
Edit:
Just asked my boss for a standing desk. We’ll see if I can get one…[/quote]
Yes; major improvement in my overall sense of well being, reduced DOMS & joint stiffness, improved between meal digestion, etc.
[/quote]
This has me thinking too. I sit on my ass way too much. I may put a requisition in today.
[quote]twojarslave wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I have never used the front squat seriously so I can’t say much on the matter. On the issue of desk duty…I raised my desk and began standing the entire work day in the fall of 2009. (w/the exception of meals & meetings) I was 46…it has been one of the best decisions I’ve ever made; I wish I had done it fifteen years sooner.
[/quote]
It’s been that good of a change?
Edit:
Just asked my boss for a standing desk. We’ll see if I can get one…[/quote]
Yes; major improvement in my overall sense of well being, reduced DOMS & joint stiffness, improved between meal digestion, etc.
[/quote]
This has me thinking too. I sit on my ass way too much. I may put a requisition in today.
[/quote]
Ya, I’m putting a request in this week. My boss was fine with it. Perks of working in a small department I guess.
Even IF we accept that front squats are at least as sensible to train the quads ON PAPER, they fail to be so in practice! Why? Because except for rank beginners and highly proficient front squatters nobody can use significant weights to elicit quad hypertrophy.
The study basically supports my view - just look at the pathetic weights used.
“Subjects lifted nearly 90% of their body mass during the back squat (61.8 ± 6/18.6 kg) and almost 70% of their body mass during the front squat (48.5±6/14.1 kg).”
In real life for the vast majority of lifters (especially intermediates) the discrepancy between 70-80% of the two squat forms will be able very large and hence any relative EMG activation advantage for the FS will be KILLED by the effects of the increased weights for the BS.
Also, I don’t get in what perfect world you guys live, but it seems you completely ignore FORM ISSUES. Becoming proficient in the back squat is hard enough (even with good coaching), but front squats?! Fuck me, that is even worse since it requires not only hip but also upper body mobility. I pretty sure almost nobody on THIS very forum can properly back squat (some of the PLers can of course), let alone FS for reps.
If you disagree, I would like to hear SPECIFIC squat numbers and how advanced you are in terms of leg size.
@Safer for lower back
- It has been shown that front squats stress the lower back MORE than back squats
- If you experience pain it is in almost ALL cases from BAD form
- All you show is that for you FS are easier to get right than back squats; nothing wrong with that but not an argument per se
@Back squat is “all posterior chain”
- This is simply NOT true; hamstrings are NOT a primary muscle group in back squats
- Glutes are more involved than hamstrings but certainly NOT more than quads for all sensible squat executions
- I don’t care what you think you “feel” - it is a very noisy measurement at best.
@Long femur stuff
- I call bullshit; you just haven’t learned to properly squat; I don’t blame you since most lifter will never achieve that
- I give you that for some it is more difficult to pick good form up than others but that doesn’t mean you can’t get it done
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Even IF we accept that front squats are at least as sensible to train the quads ON PAPER, they fail to be so in practice! Why? Because except for rank beginners and highly proficient front squatters nobody can use significant weights to elicit quad hypertrophy.
The study basically supports my view - just look at the pathetic weights used.
“Subjects lifted nearly 90% of their body mass during the back squat (61.8 ± 6/18.6 kg) and almost 70% of their body mass during the front squat (48.5±6/14.1 kg).”
In real life for the vast majority of lifters (especially intermediates) the discrepancy between 70-80% of the two squat forms will be able very large and hence any relative EMG activation advantage for the FS will be KILLED by the effects of the increased weights for the BS.
Also, I don’t get in what perfect world you guys live, but it seems you completely ignore FORM ISSUES. Becoming proficient in the back squat is hard enough (even with good coaching), but front squats?! Fuck me, that is even worse since it requires not only hip but also upper body mobility. I pretty sure almost nobody on THIS very forum can properly back squat (some of the PLers can of course), let alone FS for reps.
If you disagree, I would like to hear SPECIFIC squat numbers and how advanced you are in terms of leg size.
@Safer for lower back
- It has been shown that front squats stress the lower back MORE than back squats
- If you experience pain it is in almost ALL cases from BAD form
- All you show is that for you FS are easier to get right than back squats; nothing wrong with that but not an argument per se
@Back squat is “all posterior chain”
- This is simply NOT true; hamstrings are NOT a primary muscle group in back squats
- Glutes are more involved than hamstrings but certainly NOT more than quads for all sensible squat executions
- I don’t care what you think you “feel” - it is a very noisy measurement at best.
@Long femur stuff
- I call bullshit; you just haven’t learned to properly squat; I don’t blame you since most lifter will never achieve that
- I give you that for some it is more difficult to pick good form up than others but that doesn’t mean you can’t get it done[/quote]
If you are gonna call people out for proof on front squats and leg size at least back up your argument. Let’s see how much back squats has made you an aesthetic god.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
If you are gonna call people out for proof on front squats and leg size at least back up your argument. Let’s see how much back squats has made you an aesthetic god.[/quote]
This is all you got from this? Pathetic. Your reasoning skills remind me of some guy who got banned.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
If you are gonna call people out for proof on front squats and leg size at least back up your argument. Let’s see how much back squats has made you an aesthetic god.[/quote]
This is all you got from this? Pathetic. Your reasoning skills remind me of some guy who got banned.[/quote]
That was your reasoning. It makes your legs bigger and better right. So why not prove it. You called others out? Seems reasonable. You’ve made callouts all over yet have never shown a reason to respect those. If you’re gonna call people out you kinda gotta have some pics first for some respect and actually back things up. It’s not that hard really
And your three paragraphs of arguments are just as poor. Absolutely no support you any of those arguments so why should I dignify a more thought response?