[quote]SwD wrote:
Thanks Bill and Westclock for the explanation.
Wow Westclock, you sure seem to have tested this a lot! I’ll have to look into GHRP-6, as I know very little about it.
I did a “stasis”, i.e. 100mg/week for 5 weeks with masteron before going totally off, and felt pretty damn good overall, but tendon issues in both upper and lower body prevented me from training with any intensity or frequency, even more so while totally off. Yet I didn’t lose too much mass. Sometimes I wonder if barely training was the key to that but it doesn’t make much sense…
I hope it’s not the masteron who caused the tendon problems, as otherwise it seems a great way to go off, or for those who blast and cruise.
[/quote]
Yes. The commonly accepted method for holding your gains in the PCT is to “take it easy” on the volume.
Ill outline basically how I operate coming off and into the PCT:
I taper off all my long ester drugs, drop orals, come off even short ester stronger androgens like mast or tren, and start running prop ED at 500mg per week.
My Test E will taper itself and my overall levels due to halflife when I stop injecting it, and its residual mg’s will combine with the props 500mg/week steady injects and slowly bring me down over the course of the first weeks from 1200 mg test/week in an incredibly gradual taper that is still on the higher end of the spectrum test wise, but certainly just a little more than half of what it was.
I start injecting in the second week of my “taper” with only 250mg/week of prop as the test E ester clears completely, so I taper incredibly gradually till only 250mg of test P is remaining without the need to inject different amounts of test P everyday or that sort of thing, its simply 500mg/week the first week, then 250mg/week the second week, straight amounts, elegant way to taper test in my opinion using the test E you were already shooting to do so.
I taper the AI down as the test goes down, drop my HCG completely a day out…and frontload the SERM a day before the Test P clears.
As soon as I come off the test completely its gone in about 2 days and at very low levels by the first day and the PCT officially begins with stable test levels, fully functional balls due to HCG, which is also gone as to not surpress, frontloaded SERM for LH, running GH peptides to keep anabolism high end and strength high without androgen levels, and running low dose letro to boost test and control any estrogen issues completely in conjunction with the SERM.
Keep your weights high, dont force brutal sets because you cant recover from them, but keep your training weights as close to cycle as you can within reason.
But drop the volume considerably.
Your body does not have the androgen levels to sustain the crazy pounding you put it through on cycle, but if you tell it “lift this or die” it can manage the same weights for say 2-3 reps instead of 5.
Dont force those last two reps and start to kill your workouts, just keep it simple.
My workouts drop probably close to a third of the volume out in the PCT, but the workouts take just as long since my rest breaks go up by about 50%.
I rest about 7 minutes between sets no matter if I feel I need to or not, full recovery, and then I drop the last few reps out of the heavy sets.
Lets say Im doing 5x5 with a warm up as well.
Generally 2 moderate work sets, 2 heavy, and 1 super heavy. with the warm up being 1 set of 8 light, and 1 set of 5 light.
Off cycle, it would be 8 warm up reps light, 5 warm up a little light, then 3 moderate, 1 heavy but with only 3 reps, and 1 super heavy but only 2 reps.
The majority of my worksets get a little lighter, and I drop volume out of the heaviest sets, but keep all the weights the same.
You coast through the PCT maintaining this level and not letting it drop from that point.
Keep your cals high, dont worry about a little fat gain its only gonna be 5 pounds or so, and the loss of some the of water from the cycle will make you look thinner usually overall even if you put on a tiny bit of fat in the PCT, its worth it to hold that muscle, and you can burn that off with ease next cycle or once your balls are ticking at full speed agian in 4-5 weeks.
No cardio at all, plenty of sleep, no alcohol at all in the PCT, id rather drink and party on cycle than in the PCT.
After about 2 weeks Im feeling through the “slump” and feel fine agian, but not back to “strong” just fine. I start to taper off my prolactin support drugs (which I run through the PCT for test, sex drive, and GH boost)
At about week 4 I like to get blood work to make sure nothing is HORRIBLY wrong and will need to be corrected, I should be nearly off the dopamine agonist by this point.
Letro stays, I do not come off low dose letro.
Then about 4 weeks I feel comfortable increasing my workouts VERY close to the same levels as on cycle, just with longer rest periods and a rep dropped of here and there.
About 6 weeks and Im at full speed, I will be disappointed if Im not where I was on cycle, and at week 7 or so I will start pushing for natural gains again, and usually I make some progress even at my level of strength and development…as honestly Im still young enough to make headway on my own. I should be off my peptides by now I like to come off of them for a few weeks, even though they should be safe year round, I like to be completely “clean” cept the letro before final blood works.
I get final blood work to confirm and just keep chugging like I always do.
Generally will run peptides sporadically as budget and whim will allow; at this point to boost me till I get to my next cycle.
I set up my next cycle, plan it all out, get my drugs all in place, PCT, ancillaries, etc, put it all in a nice little box, make my cycle calendar for injections, write up some goals, get all my pins.
And wait eagerly for about 15 weeks till I can run again. Cycling peptides intermittently as I go.
This is my life with steroids, its sort of complex, but less so than what many guys are doing, and its a bit costly due to peptides and long term letro usages, but nothing out of the ordinary for our lifestyle. I seem to be doing quite well, Im stronger and faster and pretty good sized for not being much of a “mass oriented” lifter and considering I refuse to play with actual GH (mostly due to cost, not safety) or insulin (safety) or some of the more risky drugs , almost no, injuries or other issues, stable emotionally, etc.
Basically the cheapest possible way to completely cover all the basis, and do everything right and smart in my opinion. No long term suppression, FULL recovery ASAP, no GH suppression and feedback to deal with, no thyroid vodoo, no insulin usage for safety and simplicity.
Certainly adding a LITTLE insulin in would make this PCT better, and I played around with it on one cycle, but I did not feel it was worth it to myself, although tremendously effective… I simply do not wish to play with that.
Bill if you have any thoughts I would absolutely love to hear them, Ive been doing this for a while, minus the GHRP-6 which I was only somewhat recently introduced to, but it is a lovely addition in my opinion.
I think this PCT is effective, cheap, and simple, and would serve most users extremely well as it really is quite simple in practice and even a beginner could easily follow it.
If anyone is interested and it there seems to be nothing amiss with it, I can edit it, make it a little easier to read, and put in all the dosages for the SERM, AI, GHRP-6 and prolactin agonist (I use pramipexole) to make this easier to follow and for people to experiment with.