High Frequency Squatting

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
So what is the correct and only non-stupid way to train the squat?[/quote]

Glad you asked. haha

Hypertrophy (primarily quads) and setup/technique are the only two factors you have to think about. Light/moderate training is at best sub-optimal and probably useless.

I think hitting squats HARD every 5 days ala Fred Hatfield (aka Dr. Squat) is more or less optimal for stimulating hypertrophy. In addition, I really like the idea of squatting with low volume every day to perfect your setup - those sessions are NOT for stimulating hypertrophy or the “grease your groove” bullshit, but simply to find your optimal setup/technique/positions - so goddamn underrated.

Example: HARD days
A. Squat

  • ramp up to DM (start with 5s → 3x → 2x → 1x)
  • drop weight and do 5-8x5 @9-10 RPE (straight weight or ramps)
  • Pump work: no-lock-out reps or 10-15 rep sets or drop sets
    B. Leg press (optional)
    C. Leg Ext. (optional)

Goals: heavy & high volume + pump work - essentially like a BBer but focusing more on getting all the quad work from squats. When in doubt increase the volume…this really should be HARD day.

Setup days example
A. Squat

  • whatever you feel useful that doesn’t comprise whatever else you want to train that day
  • I like pause singles to focus on positions - work up to something moderately challenging and hit a few sets

Goals: Perfect your setup - think Chinese Olympic WLer picture perfect setup/execution

ps: I personally really like Smolov as well. It follows the same principles but spreads the heavy volume across more sessions per week.[/quote]

that actually sounds pretty similar to what I do.

Like I mention I don’t like to max everyday. I like more contrast between hard and easy days (where I’ll work with a sub even daily maximal weight). I also like to throw in clusters and stuff when I’m feeling good to get more volume.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
So what is the correct and only non-stupid way to train the squat?[/quote]

Glad you asked. haha

Hypertrophy (primarily quads) and setup/technique are the only two factors you have to think about. Light/moderate training is at best sub-optimal and probably useless.

I think hitting squats HARD every 5 days ala Fred Hatfield (aka Dr. Squat) is more or less optimal for stimulating hypertrophy. In addition, I really like the idea of squatting with low volume every day to perfect your setup - those sessions are NOT for stimulating hypertrophy or the “grease your groove” bullshit, but simply to find your optimal setup/technique/positions - so goddamn underrated.

Example: HARD days
A. Squat

  • ramp up to DM (start with 5s → 3x → 2x → 1x)
  • drop weight and do 5-8x5 @9-10 RPE (straight weight or ramps)
  • Pump work: no-lock-out reps or 10-15 rep sets or drop sets
    B. Leg press (optional)
    C. Leg Ext. (optional)

Goals: heavy & high volume + pump work - essentially like a BBer but focusing more on getting all the quad work from squats. When in doubt increase the volume…this really should be HARD day.

Setup days example
A. Squat

  • whatever you feel useful that doesn’t comprise whatever else you want to train that day
  • I like pause singles to focus on positions - work up to something moderately challenging and hit a few sets

Goals: Perfect your setup - think Chinese Olympic WLer picture perfect setup/execution

ps: I personally really like Smolov as well. It follows the same principles but spreads the heavy volume across more sessions per week.[/quote]

that actually sounds pretty similar to what I do.

Like I mention I don’t like to max everyday. I like more contrast between hard and easy days (where I’ll work with a sub even daily maximal weight). I also like to throw in clusters and stuff when I’m feeling good to get more volume.[/quote]

Squatting again with no back pain. My assistant at work stopped showing up so I’ll probably be working 10+ hours of overtime for the forseeable future. Body is holding up well to being on my feet 10+ hours a day but we will see. Squatted 280x3 and 305x1 yesterday, neither where very hard but I hadn’t squatted the previous few days. Going in today to mess around with foot positions and work on technique.

I read a few articles about hip flexor pain while squatting and two of the things I picked up were that tight hamstrings and weak adductors can cause this. I usually do leg curls prior to squatting, but I’ll be moving them to the end for now and I’ll see if it helps. I might do a few sets of the good-girl machine prior to squatting tonight. If this doesn’t help I’ll probably go to a doctor or a physical therapist.

EDIT:

Brought stance out like a little bit. I have always squatted with a super close stance. Today I squatted with my knees a around shoulder width and I had no pain, although I could tell I still have some issues. The left side flows better throughout the squat, I have to fight to keep my right side working evenly with my left, and keeping the right knee out. I’ll continue to practice squatting with the widened stance.
Today was just 225 3x3. I’ll be squatting/benching again tomorrow too.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
So what is the correct and only non-stupid way to train the squat?[/quote]

Glad you asked. haha

Hypertrophy (primarily quads) and setup/technique are the only two factors you have to think about. Light/moderate training is at best sub-optimal and probably useless.

I think hitting squats HARD every 5 days ala Fred Hatfield (aka Dr. Squat) is more or less optimal for stimulating hypertrophy. In addition, I really like the idea of squatting with low volume every day to perfect your setup - those sessions are NOT for stimulating hypertrophy or the “grease your groove” bullshit, but simply to find your optimal setup/technique/positions - so goddamn underrated.

Example: HARD days
A. Squat

  • ramp up to DM (start with 5s → 3x → 2x → 1x)
  • drop weight and do 5-8x5 @9-10 RPE (straight weight or ramps)
  • Pump work: no-lock-out reps or 10-15 rep sets or drop sets
    B. Leg press (optional)
    C. Leg Ext. (optional)

Goals: heavy & high volume + pump work - essentially like a BBer but focusing more on getting all the quad work from squats. When in doubt increase the volume…this really should be HARD day.

Setup days example
A. Squat

  • whatever you feel useful that doesn’t comprise whatever else you want to train that day
  • I like pause singles to focus on positions - work up to something moderately challenging and hit a few sets

Goals: Perfect your setup - think Chinese Olympic WLer picture perfect setup/execution

ps: I personally really like Smolov as well. It follows the same principles but spreads the heavy volume across more sessions per week.[/quote]

that actually sounds pretty similar to what I do.

Like I mention I don’t like to max everyday. I like more contrast between hard and easy days (where I’ll work with a sub even daily maximal weight). I also like to throw in clusters and stuff when I’m feeling good to get more volume.[/quote]

As long as you keep the hard days HARD, you will be fine. Especially natties need that heavy volume to make progress. I think it is very easy to deceive oneself that one is training hard on these go-by-feel daily squatting approaches. Been there, done that.

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

As long as you keep the hard days HARD, you will be fine. Especially natties need that heavy volume to make progress. I think it is very easy to deceive oneself that one is training hard on these go-by-feel daily squatting approaches. Been there, done that.[/quote]

Mine get pretty hard, but generally not supper hard on the main lift. I like to do heavy conditioning/strong-man type work for hard sessions. I’ll squat up to a heavy single or double, hit a couple back-offs, maybe hit a cluster set and/or a pump set and then go pull a heavy sled or do some farmers walks.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I actually do better going every day on squatting rather than every other day. It keeps me feeling loose and warm and not sore.

On bench the conclusion I’ve come to doesn’t make the most sense. The best setup I’ve found is to press every day but alternate between overhead and bench. Doing that my shoulders and pecs stay happy. It is even better than just benching every other day. If I bench every day, crap always hurts. If I lower frequency to every other day, stuff still always hurts. But if I bench every other day and do overhead press on the between days everything feels great. It?s more pressing, more volume, less rest, and less shoulder/elbow/pec problems. Go figure.

I’ve become a believer in different tissues recovering at different rates. Muscles recover faster than tendons and ligaments. If you hit something daily the difference in recovery is minimal. If you go to a medium frequency (3 days a week or so) muscle is recovered more than other stuff and it can cause problems. For me, I will either do low frequency where EVERYTHING is fully recovered or very high frequency where all the tissues are equal because nothing is fully recovered. Hence I haven?t done well with 3 or 4 day style DUP programming.

The other thing I’ve found is that with higher frequency there is larger variation in performance. Some days just plain suck. Some days, everything seems right. You sleep well, your diet was all on point, you feel good, and then everything is crap when you start training. And sometimes it’s the opposite. You do everything wrong, but training feels great. Because of that I don’t like to plan back off work or even decide to do a daily max until I’m lifting. I much prefer basing the day on a daily minimum, not on a daily max. That means on crap days you can shut it down even before you get to a daily max much less back off work, but you have to at least go in and hit your minimum. I’ve found that if I push anyway and hit even just a daily max on crap days, it can make the next day crap too, but if I just hit my min (get the blood flowing and grease the groove) and call it a day, generally the next day will be a really good session.

[/quote]

Dude, I need a printer and have it sticked somewhere. I think EXACTLY the same on the tissue topic.

Only difference : I like to alternate pressing days with light shoulder/rear delts work days.

A week would be :

M : squat (up to 2RM) - bench (up2rm) - horizontal pull (volume)
T : paused squats (10x1@70%) - delts, biceps
W : front squat (up2rm) - push press (up2rm) - vertical pull (volume)
T : paused squats (10x1@70%) - delts, biceps
F : squat (up to 2RM) - bodyweight push and pull (volume)
S : paused squats (10x1@70%) - deadlift (up2rm) - traps, biceps
Sunday off

My non-main lift work is done kinda like scratch list training. I have some general goals for what I want to get done in a week but no daily schedule. I get stuff done based on time and energy. Sometimes it?s one day a week, or a separate workout or a little bit every day. Although that?s been a little different lately with all the clean practice I?ve been doing, which has been getting my upper back pretty sore.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
My non-main lift work is done kinda like scratch list training. I have some general goals for what I want to get done in a week but no daily schedule. I get stuff done based on time and energy. Sometimes it?s one day a week, or a separate workout or a little bit every day. Although that?s been a little different lately with all the clean practice I?ve been doing, which has been getting my upper back pretty sore.[/quote]

My immediate primary goal is improving my powerlifting total at 163, secondary goal is hypertrophy. Long term I want to move up a weight class. So after every workout I try to rotate through 1-2 body parts with a hypertrophy emphasis, or I deadlift some 80-85% singles

I picked a meet out. I’ll be ordering a belt and a sleeves this week. I’m ~15 weeks out. I’m planning on doing a 12 week Sheiko program I downloaded, otherwise I might just continue what I’m doing.

I have an ortho appointment to check out my SI joint and my hip crease, even though the hip crease rarely bothers me now that I took my stance out a bit. But I’m not terribly comfortable deadlifting with the sore SI joint.

If anyone has any advice for transitioning from olympic squatting to squatting in a meet I would appreciate it. I think belting up will help me not go as deep because it will start to dig in and I’ll know I need to reverse.

I honestly think that too much mobility is a bad thing for powerlifting. You actually want everything to be tight and near limit stretched at the bottom of your squat (just barely below parallel). If you have the mobility to go lower, then to stop and turn the weight around there is all muscle effort. If that spot is your mobility limit, just staying tight will stop you there and give you a bounce. I think if you are squatting in a way where you have “excess” mobility you can honestly be better off going deeper and getting a better bounce down where your limit is. There are some guys setting records doing that, so it isn’t necessarily that bad. Plus you don?t have to ever worry about red lights for depth.

I think this is actually one possible big benefits of wider squatting, less depth mobility. That is why box squatting has so much carryover to wide stance squatting. In the bottom of a wide stance squat you are sitting on the mechanical limits of joints, not entirely dissimilar from actually sitting on a box. Though wider stance high frequency squatting has done nothing but inflame the crap out of my hips in the past, so I’d use caution changing foot position a lot on high frequency.

Also (if this applies) you could try practicing NOT sinking into the bottom of the squat. Keep your hips back and don’t let them come forward as you approach rock bottom.

If you use heels, you could also try going to flat shoes to reduce mobility.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If you use heels, you could also try going to flat shoes to reduce mobility.[/quote]

I’m going to try this again, but I haven’t felt comfortable squatting in my chucks the last few times I tried. I use VS athletics OLY shoes which have at least a quarter inch more lift that most olympic shoes if I remember correctly. If I continue competing I might just get shoes with a smaller heel for meets and meet prep and lift in my current ones the rest of the year.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I honestly think that too much mobility is a bad thing for powerlifting. You actually want everything to be tight and near limit stretched at the bottom of your squat (just barely below parallel). If you have the mobility to go lower, then to stop and turn the weight around there is all muscle effort. If that spot is your mobility limit, just staying tight will stop you there and give you a bounce. I think if you are squatting in a way where you have “excess” mobility you can honestly be better off going deeper and getting a better bounce down where your limit is. There are some guys setting records doing that, so it isn’t necessarily that bad. Plus you don?t have to ever worry about red lights for depth.

I think this is actually one possible big benefits of wider squatting, less depth mobility. That is why box squatting has so much carryover to wide stance squatting. In the bottom of a wide stance squat you are sitting on the mechanical limits of joints, not entirely dissimilar from actually sitting on a box. Though wider stance high frequency squatting has done nothing but inflame the crap out of my hips in the past, so I’d use caution changing foot position a lot on high frequency.

Also (if this applies) you could try practicing NOT sinking into the bottom of the squat. Keep your hips back and don’t let them come forward as you approach rock bottom.
[/quote]

I’ll try a few of these on my next “strength” session and I’ll report back. I’m thinking a little more forward lean might help. My old squat stance literally had my feet maybe 8-10" apart. now I’m around 12-14 inches apart.

Ortho found a bone spur on my right side which was causing the greater pain on that side. Said I could continue lifting as long as I wasn’t feeling pain, and to work on strengthen hip external rotation. I will have to maintain the wider stance for the forseeable future. He said I hip scope will eventually have to happen.

First heavy parallel squat. I think I can take another inch or so of depth off. I was pretty fatigued going into it.