T Nation

High Estrogen Symptoms without High E?

I felt GREAT my first 3 weeks of treatment but every week past that has been down hill I’m at the end of week 6 and I feel worse than b4 treatment. My total t was 225 and estrogen was 36 now I’m at 1100 t and 25 estrogen. Thing is I’m only on 150mg cyp weekly and that’s it. nothing else, no ai no hcg. Only the test.

Week 4 I started developing gyno and later that week got the blood work…only 25 estrogen w/ 1100 test. I am in an unbelievable brain fog I feel weak I am so tired all the time I dont feel well at all my appetite is out of control and worst of all very very rapid gyno. How the hell did my estrogen go down after starting treatment when I’m not taking anything to reduce estrogen? I thought more test = more estrogen

Like I said I am strictly on test alone atm. Getting my big follow up and blood work tommorow but I’m terrified they not gunna know wtf going on and end my treatment I so badly want the benefits I saw weeks 1 to 3 I felt soooooo good. I want to live my life feeling like.that it was almost euphoric.

There are some labs missing, Total T is inactive, Free T is the active hormone. The brain fog and weakness could be a lot of things, your thyroid hormones (Free T3) metabolizes testosterone in the liver and if low could make the situation worse as TRT attempts to increase metabolic rates.

The decrease in estrogen is unusual but not unheard of and the explanation is simple, when you were natural you have intratesticular estrogen and estrogen via aromatisation in fat tissue and now are only getting it from one source since the testicles are shut down. It’s not really a concern.

I wouldn’t want my estrogen any lower and if you end up having to lower your T dosage, I might recommend some HCG to keep estrogen 20>. The appetite being out of control comment tells me TRT is working and you just need to dial-in your protocol. TRT can induce nipple sensitivity and can cause a burning feeling after dosing changes as hormone levels are in flux and usually subsides after 6 weeks as your body adapts.

Gyno is not very common around T-Nation so unless you had gyno earlier in life, I doubt you have gyno. Your dosage may just be too high for you if all other labs checks out. I had incredible fatigue on TRT which turned out to be fluid retention and is a complication of diabetes, but it wasn’t even noticeable because was trapped in my vascular system.

This extra fluid in my veins drove my blood pressure high, once I started taking the diuretic, it was like flipping a light switch on, my energy and erections came out of nowhere within hours. So you see it can be a lot of things causing these symptoms.

You’re going to have to work the problem, you’ll eventually you get where you hope to be.

The gyno is likely water weight. You probably feel like crap because your natural test stop producing and your body is adjusting to injecting hormones. I too thought I was developing gyno fast in the beginning but gyno doesn’t develop fast. It was just water (14 lbs by week 5-6) and that water weight will dissipate on its own (took about 4 months for me). You have to give the protocol about 8-12 weeks before you can judge it’s effectiveness. Those first 8-12 weeks can suck bad. I usually feel worse than pre-TRT during that time. If you change anything before the 8-12 weeks you are restarting that time line. There’s no quick fix but in time you will feel better. Also, be careful eating crap as it can make you feel worse. The fatter you are/get the worse TRT will be. Make sure you make yourself go to the gym. Many of the positive effects come from consistent gym going.

If you are extremely worried about the gyno get yourself some Tamoxifen and use very low dose (10mg/EOD).

What are your symptoms?

The E2 assay has a high variability, don’t overinterpret the last result.

My guess is that you are overtreated. Excessive tiredness is a documented side effect of too much T. Reduce your dose to 100 mg per week and see if you improve. There is a too little and too much also for T.

Is this a side effect mediated by etiocholanolone (T metabolite, immunostimulatory, induces leukocytosis etc)

Guys on cycle sometimes get what’s called the “test flu”, feel run down/tired… it’s nor a commonly noted side effect, some are more susceptible than others.

If he is not doing daily injections as I understand this is extremely bad advice. 1110 total t and his other values are not high at all for most people.
As I understand he injects once per week all he needs to do is split his dose into daily injections

@mikey512 what your are experiencing most likely is the swing in hormones from the huge weekly injections. Start injecting 20mg daily and you will get much better in 3-4 weeks and continue to improve for the next 5-6 weeks and so

This thread is an evidence of what @dbossa stated that most high e2 symptoms are not e2 symptoms but hormone fluctuation symptoms. Thanks god two great docs have told me something similar before I started otherwise I would be doing crap