T Nation

High Estradiol


#1

NOTE: I should have posted the following in this thread, but I instead posted it here. Hope the mods don't mind fixing this. Sorry!


#2

OK, sorry again. New to these boards. I didn't mean to make a brand new topic. I meant to post this in "Estradiol: Why You Should Care"

Damn!


#3

No worries re: posting.

Are you having symptoms you think are related to high normal E2 levels? What are they?

I would advise against treating a lab value in the absence of correlated clinical symptoms.

Understand that bringing down your E2 level is potentially a lifetime project. Furthermore, little is known for certain what is an optimum E2 level in middle-aged and older men, or what the long term effects might be of aromatase inhibitors. Anecdotal evidence suggests that E2 levels in the low to mid twenties makes middle-aged men on TRT feel their best . . . but you are neither middle-aged nor on TRT.


#4

I've sometimes battled low libido & or had some trouble maintaining an erection during sex. I also have pretty low free test even with high total T. I also naturally supp with DHEA because my DHEA-S levels were & are naturally somehow pretty low. Combine that with being a big drinker & I think E2 has plenty of opps to get a word in.

That said, I've pretty good strength & mass so from a pure physical perspective, I could do without Aromasin. All that I've researched shows that the sweet spot for E2 is between 20 & 30 so I want to see how I feel if I bring my number down which Exemestane clearly does.

I've pretty much decided to take it, I just want to know where I should start with dosing it. I plan to just buy one bottle & cycling it like anyone would cycle and AI like Novedex or maybe 6-OXO. Just want to see if anybody can guide me on how much.


#5

An occasional bout of depression (or just situational sadness?), poor libido, or weak erections are part of the human condition, so unless these are consistant feature of your life I don't think you are outside the norm. Life can be stressful and even young guys can have these problems occasionally. In addition, I am sure you have noticed that you aren't 18 anymore. You are still young but your sexual peak is over your left shoulder somewhere.

If your testosterone is low why not ask your doctor for TRT? Safe, legal, and other medical issues can be dealt with at the same time.

Alcohol is known to increase aromatase activity and E2 levels. Do the obvious thing and knock off the booze. That will probably do more for your sex life than any other single thing. Do you have a big belly, ie: approaching 40 inches around at the belly button? Lose it. A big belly is a risk factor for metabolic syndrome (or syndrome X). Diabetes is a big cause of impotence. And once that happens it is irreversible due to the microvascular damage.

Adequate rest, a clean diet, and hitting the weights are essential for good health and feeling good, especially as you age.

So, clean up your act if it needs cleaning, and maybe you won't feel the need to experiment with AI.

I know you are going to try it anyway, but I think you are going to be disappointed and maybe make your symptoms worse if you overdose, which is very possible.

Those of us on TRT do not cycle anything. In fact, we desire the exact opposite, which is steady state plasma levels of drugs. TRT is a lifetime deal, not something we go on and off.

I cannot recommend a dosing schedule for you because I just don't know. What you are proposing is not entirely logical. I will say that many men have found one mg. of anastrozole per week to reduce their E2 to a reasonable level, but that was too much for me. Anastrozole is powerful enzyme inhibitor and getting the dosing right can be difficult. There apparently is a lot of variability in patient responses. The other drugs you mentioned, I have no experience with. Anastrozole seems to be most often used, and maybe for good reasons, but I don't know what they are.

Finally, and I mention this because a lot of curious guys will read it, AI for men is on the fringe of legitimate medicine. The reason is that there are no large long term studies published that show either the efficacy or safety of AI for men. There are some short term studies with a small number of men that showed no harm, but no clinical benefit, either. Doctors are a conservative bunch because many times they have seen the latest and greatest go down in flames. Vioxx comes to mind, but there have been a other instances where drugs and therapies have been abandoned when their true nature became apparent over time. So far, there is just not enough data to support the large scale, long term use of AI for aging men.

Anti-aging doctors are doing it, however. Bring cash.

Those of us on an AI are guinea pigs, truly.

I know this isn't what you came to hear but I felt like typing. I hope it helps someone if not you. Good luck.


#6

Alcohol and some OTC/Rx drugs load up the liver's P450 enzyme pathways that also clear E2 from your body. So the alcohol is reducing E2 clearance rates, which increases E2 that in turn lowers T and increases SHBG. SHBG in turn then reduced FT/bio-T. Its all leveraged against you.

What about weight and waist size? Cholesterol? Serum glucose?

Yes, your E2 numbers are a problem. Better to address things that cause the problem than to only introduce an AI bandaid. Exemestane is a bad choice for an AI. You would feel better with less E2. You will feel better with less alcohol too. If you want to feel better, you can't continue life as a heavy drinker. Maintaining health and a healthy hormone balance is very much a discussion of the health of your liver.


#7

Thanks for the feedback. To be clear, I'm not drinking every night here, only on the weekends. I'm 5"10 200lbs with a 33" waist. From a physical perspective I'm very healthy & all my other numbers look great on my blood test.

I picked out Aromasin because it has the shortest halflife out of the big three & I wanted to take it daily at a very low dose (5mg)as opposed to the 25mg or 50mg given in some of the tests. Ultimately I want to test and see if it makes me "feel" better. Not looking for a lifestyle bandaid becuase I live pretty clean save for a few drinks on the weekends.

Why do you say Aromasin is a bad choice?


#8

Thanks for the feedback. To be clear, I'm not drinking every night here, only on the weekends. I'm 5"10 200lbs with a 33" waist. From a physical perspective I'm very healthy & all my other numbers look great on my blood test.

I picked out Aromasin because it has the shortest halflife out of the big three & I wanted to take it daily at a very low dose (5mg)as opposed to the 25mg or 50mg given in some of the studies. Since it seems my E2 hovers around 40 to 50 then my logic is if I can get and keep it around 30 I should see improvement right?

Ultimately I want to test and see if it makes me "feel" better. Not looking for a lifestyle bandaid becuase I live pretty clean save for a few drinks on the weekends.

Why do you say Aromasin is a bad choice?


#9

Anybody?


#10

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#11

Look at the costs of Aromasin 25mg every day vs 1.0mg adex per week. Despite the "suicidal AI", its actions are in no way superior. You can take 1ml of a liquid adex per week or 7ml of liquid aromasin per week. Aromasin costs more per ml. So you can spend 8.4 times more for aromasin to get the same job done. And some find that aromasin simply does not get the job done.

Forget low dose as you should be using the right dose in any case, which might be a lower dose.

Based on your BW and other info, I suggest that you try starting with adex 5/8 mg/week dosed EOD.


#12

Thanks. I ordered adex and I plan to take the 5/8 like you said. I looked online and I see that there are glass droppers that let you measure .1 mg at a time so should I take it everyday in a small dose or bi-weekly?