T Nation

High E2 Symptoms, Confused and Fed Up

Hey Guys, I’ve been suffering from symptoms of High E2 since October 2019. At the time i didn’t know that High E2 was the reason, Symptoms were then as follows (Nov 19)

Sleeping - Always suffered from Insomnia
Struggles to wake up in the mornings, Don’t feel like i have had enough rest, losing the ‘Go’ within myself, Deceases motivation.
Face Goes very red randomly throughout the day.
Feel warm when others are cold. (Can be Sweaty)
Anxiety like feelings, heart beating feeling and heavy breathing.

So after this i posted on the forum and thanks to everyones support here it was quickly worked out my symptoms were matching with my bloods.

These were on a Protocol of 200mg Test Enanthate Mon/Thurs

Oestradiol 360 pmol/L (Range: 41 - 159)
SHBG 16.9 nmol/L (Range: 18.3 - 54.1)
Total Testosterone X 81.3 nmol/L (Range: 8.64 - 29)

Now these Numbers are Crazy, but bear in mind as a newbie i made the mistake of taking a 100mg Shot One hour and 30 mins before having these bloods taken, so the numbers must of have been dramatically skewed by this.

After the advice of some guys i decided in November to change from a twice weekly to an EOD protocol hoping this would make a difference, it did. To some extent. Here are the symptoms i’ve had since then and are suffering from as of now.

Feel warm when others are cold. (Mainly at night)
Insomnia
Struggles to wake up in the mornings (Feeling like ive had no sleep)
Motivation Issues (Lost the ‘Go’)
Feeling Anxious/irritable/depressed (Can be very Emotional)
Acne started to appear end of Dec but has gone down.
Libido reduced, Erections not hard.
Bloated
Although 23% BF which i know is extremely high, even more gyno has started to develop.

My Weight has fluctuated during this period staying between 98 - 101Kg.

So what is the solution? Ive been really scared of even asking for an AI from my Doc as i I’ve heard so many bad things about the dangers of Crashed E2, Osteoporosis and that AI’s are just for Bodybuilders. But what about for someone who genuinely needs temporary E2 Management due to negative symptoms + has Bloods as evidence.

I just had some more bloods done recently and will update once the results arrive, they will paint a much better picture of how effective the EOD protocol has been. ED will be too much for me, being from a Europe Country with Glass Ampoules setting up ED syringes wouldn’t be easy either. (Interested to know solutions)

In terms of reducing the BF% from 23% This is real major priority. i understand that the reason its high in the first place is due to the aromatisation occurring in the fat and brain. The issue is if one needs to reduce symptoms ASAP what is going to expedite the relief, a very small dose of AI (Arimidex 0.25mg twice a week) or reducing the BF% which is going to take much longer especially when you already feel depressed/lethargic/unmotivated due to the unbalanced hormones. Still get myself to go to the gym for 45 mins - 1 hr 5 days a week. at best on TRT was doing min 1hr 30 mins 5 days higher intensity.

At worst felt Pre-TRT, now i’m like a 4/10. 10/10 being feeling amazing

Thanks

Yep. Sounds like estrogenic communication to me. My girl talks the same way

3 Likes

It’s easy to see the problem, your SHBG is low meaning you bind less androgens and most are bioavailable and this can cause symptoms if in excess in some men. It doesn’t help that your Total T and Free T are many times the reference ranges.

The last time in your other thread you were taking 100mg 2x times weekly, this protocol was causing your problems. You need to lower the dosage and/or you will more than likely need daily or every other day injections or things are not going to get better.

So if you don’t want to do that, then my advice is quit now because you’ll just keep having the same problems. Your estrogen is 98 pg/mL (10-35 pg/mL) by US measurements, there some guys who will be fine at this level, but some men would have problems at these levels.

It all comes down to androgen sensitivity. My advice is spend a little more time on T-Nation, ask questions, see others having the same issues and learn from their experiences.

More words arrived

Would Appreciate if you had a look at the post again, didn’t give much info before :+1:

First, your symptoms could be hundreds of different things. Including sleep apnea.
Dangers of osteoporosis are overblown, and low dose temporary use is not going to kill you. Long term use, especially at high dosing, will have negative consequences for your heart and other things. Your labs are useless btw, you need to get some new ones that arent’s right after a bug shot.

It is actually pretty easy. I can only get glass amps. I use a nice long 23 ga needle to draw the entire amp, and then I backfill 27 ga insulin syringes. Then I put them needle up in a cup in the kitchen cabinet and use them up. Then I do the whole thing over again. It’s really no big deal, I promise.

2 Likes

I experienced this when my levels were too high, in fact I remember driving home from my brothers house and went to turn on my AC and couldn’t figure out why it wasn’t cold. I failed to realize it was 34 degrees outside and I had my AC set to “auto”.

I was HOT even when it was freezing outside. Your levels are still too high. All of these symptoms are androgens in excess and I expect my emotions to be overblown.

I would decrease your dosage by a significant degree, by about 30%. This is the dialing in phase we men on TRT have to go through in order to figure out our dosing.

You get it right sooner or later.

Sleep Apnea already out the equation for now, early Dec had two home sleep studies to try determine if it was sleep disorder related, ruled out sleep apnea. Agree with that previous shot just didn’t realise how badly skewed the results would be.

I get it is very similar as i’m currently doing it with my EOD injections, the issue is the impracticality of moving around with 7 preloaded syringes, esp when travelling different countries. Have you considered Compound Pharmacy creams instead of Test E? Not Gels

How long does the Test E last in the syringe for yourself? 1 week? or more? and what is the best time to administer the shot. Currently do them in the morning around 9AM right before i leave for work. But timings of the injections really affect me in terms of sleep.

The OP has had levels extremely high levels before, this is most likely still his problem. This guy is looking to be very sensitive to androgens and probably won’t need very much.

The pre-loaded syringes can last weeks as there is additives to prevent bacteria from growing.

You can purchase empty sterile vials and inject Test E into them.

Thanks for the advice, i get what your saying, its just when you say reduce dose it sounds scary as it feels to me that my TT and FT would go down dramatically and E2 wouldn’t got down in the same way. Making me feel like Pre-TRT. I’m not knowledgeable so would be grateful to know why reducing dose is preferred over using an AI at a minimum dose short term. And is there any circumstance an AI is useful?

This is precisely why you are having problems, because you’re afraid lower levels will result in more symptoms, but that is exactly what you have now, more symptoms because levels are too high.

I had the same problem and it took two years to figure out I only need 400-450 and only need 7mg daily to achieve it. The daily protocol is the only one where I have no need for an AI. If you decrease your dosage, estrogen will decrease and if your Free T is gosh darn high like i think it is, you’ll feel better after lowering the dosage.

Keep decreasing the dosage until symptoms are no longer, if you go to far, then go back to the previous dose where you felt good. Don’t even pay attention to the numbers until you feel good because you don’t know at what numbers you’ll feel good.

You need levels to decrease the dosage dramatically because I think you are still too high. All your symptoms sound very familiar to me, I had every single one of them when my Total T, Free T and estrogen were all very high.

I typically fill at least 4 weeks worth at a time. But I’m twice a week and don’t have the same issues as you. Your E2 should stay in ratio with your test level. It might, in fact, be lower in ratio to total and free test done in smaller more frequent injections as available free T is kept in a tighter range that way and theoretically minimizes aromatization.

You’re at 3x the high end of normal and are worried about lowering your dose?

I don’t understand that one.

1 Like

Values are skewed, Test E 100mg was given 90 mins before blood was drawn.
Bugshottah, Lets see when my other bloods come in a couple days hopefully.

Still Scared…

Get it re done then

I think that to lose weight youre gonna have to implement intermittent fasting. Reduce your calorie intake, and walk. This is a big issue for you. When you wake up, dont eat til 1pm every other day and eat less sugar. Oh and stop being scared, you already did a brave thing by going on TRT. Time to strap on your boots and march!

Bear in mind that T peaks something like 12 to 24h post injection. So 1h30min after an injection T levels will actually be much closer to the lowest level (trough) than to peak level.

Your dose is simply way to high for you. Thats why i keep saying start at 100mg per week max and work your way up and not the other way around.

I would reduce to a 100 or 120 per week split into 3 injections.

All that needs to be said for now about this topic

Can you get labs done where you are not testing an hour after injection? Your labs are useless. There is no way to tell what’s going on so no idea why you’ll start playing with your protocol. Get an actual, usable lab done first.