T Nation

High E Hinders Strength?


#42

Typical of you to play that card, I’m literally providing you with evidence as to why what your saying may not be the case and you have a sook when you cant bring anything to the table and back it up. I never asked for your OPINION on what E2 levels should be, you put the forward of your own accord, maybe have a look at the title? Stop wasting MY time.


#43

Saw before posters here like to have a low test/e2 ratio on cycle, not sure who is right but it is certainly not an universal opinion. I saw where by BP and heart rate went with a moderately low ratio while water weight spiked and increased AI…
As of the 200kg squat for reps being unlikely ? Not sure where that comes from, not that I (a 45 y o coming out recently from a 15 years break from lifting) can do that although might only be a few weeks to a few months away if no injury comes and derails the training again, but it is a small potato lift for powerlifters, especially over 100kgs bodyweight.


#44

Thank you for your input, I’ve found the same thing, as e2 climbs and ratio lowers I get extremely uncomfortable with excess water weight and high blood pressure, it just isnt a fun time for me.
As to the lifts, that’s my opinion too, those are baby lifts compared to most geared power lifters. Even natural I know a few that can outlift me with no problems.


#45

The t/e ratio is not an opinion is biological science its not up for debate. Its a very precise ratio. You WILL have problems with a too higher ratio. Also squatting 200kg is extremely different than squatting 200kg with the proper contraction and actually using the targeted muscles. Yes you may be able to move 200kg up and down but this is bodybuilding we are talking about. Go watch vids of kai greene, Jay cutler, Phil Heath squatting and ask yourself if your squatting the same take not at how they literally look like human hydraulic systems moving the weight so fluently and smoothly with ease all tension and concentration on the targeted muscle.


#47

You literally have no idea what your talking about, it’s rather pathetic. Not once did anyone say anything about bodybuilding, most don’t train with triples if they are purely bodybuilding.
You still haven’t replied with your stats? Your a pussy with zero knowledge of the subjects your discussing. All you have is regurgitated bs you’ve read online, your making a fool of yourself, go away.


#48

I think you might have been more right with this then I gave you credit for. I mean the high e2 in the beginning didnt help with my enthusiasm for the gym and big lifts etc but it might have been more the nervous system burn out, that’s why I still wasnt feeling 100% even after getting e2 down. I’ve stopped taking pre workout and lowered the intensity of secondary lifts (3x10 instead of 3x5) and feeling pretty bloody good already mentally and physically.


#49

It is testosterones metabolite DHT that is responsible for nervous system effects. But again only if everything else is balanced.


#50

I’ll give you a generous 2 months, since it might only be couple weeks, to post a triple with 200 kg.

I don’t think it is that big of a lift, but to suggest it is a lift one can get in a month or two of training is ridiculous unless you’re a freak.


#51

Heavy squat yesterday was 175kg 2 reps 5 sets, 190 should be rather easy next 1rm work out, in 3.5 weeks time, hoping for closer to 200. On my first Test cycle in 20 years, which should help.
Not suggesting it comes with 2 months work, just noted that it is small lift for powerlifters especially heavier guys - and actually if you are 30 rather than 45 and are moderately strong and big while training for a 200k triple, it shouldn’t take years to get there (this is the pharma subforum btw, and this would apply particularly to enhanced lifters)
If you train while being afraid of heavy squats and generally free weights, as I see many people in the gym here in China a whole life working out might not be enough - it’s not a powerlifting scene - but than while one don’t find chinese olympic weightlifters in the local gyms around here, youtube has a few videos of smallish chinese lifters bursting through over 200kgs atg squats, really a shame they don’t seem to frequent and coach in the local gyms.


#52

Just checked on a strength level website, not sure the link would be authorized.
@100k bw between 24 and 39 y old a triple @200k would be stronger than 86% of male lifters in the similar age group, according to their stats, so neither an easy lift nor a really difficult one, as I suspect most lifters don’t train specifically for a top 1 or 3rm.


#53

This isn’t a power lifting thread.


#54

Actually OP is worrying about how high E2 might affect his strength, and his training is consisting of heavy triples.
it has more to do with powerlifting than with how the bodybuilders you seem to follow do work out.
I’m very much interested btw about the following :

“I don’t think the test helps much with the nervous system, so I you are hitting 3RM every week on deadlifts / squats, that is going to catch up with you.”

Wonder others’ input about this, I got hurt when working low reps often since lifting again but it is a standard in many powerlifting programs. Westside has one lifting to his max twice a week, I followed a similar program @29 y o but it looks much harder now.
Thought Test would help but still wondering.


#55

It is testosterones metabolite dht that improves strength but only if everything else test/e2 are in tune.


#56

Why so argumentative all the time? Luissz if putting forward some numbers in regards to what was said previously, theres nothing wrong with that.
Yes dht is responsible for the nervous system though I doubt it is hindered much by the reduction in e2, going by the fact that I’ve always run with lower e2 and I’ve managed to put 30kg on my squat and deadlift and 15kg to my bench in 8 weeks as stated above. I’m not assuming anything, I’m going off my own experiences.


#57

Without e2 at the correct ratio the androgen receptor is deaf to t/dht meaning theyre useless.


#58

That very much depends on what your refer to as ideal levels. With the levels your talking about, clearly that isnt the case as you can see with the significant weight increase and the 20 pounds I’ve put on, granted some being water.


#59

It’s not neccarily the right “level” it’s the right ratio that matters


#60

Show me the studies and research and I’ll play ball.


#61

Curious if someone will post that research. Last time i asked for that following fruitless online searches on the topic, the only feedback i got was “I paid a pro bodybuilder for his opinion. You won’t find info on google”
The opinion of one proBBer on the topic, while interesting if the story is true, isn’t exactly definitive science.
despite asking on a couple of forums and researching online, can’t say i found much information on the proper test/E2 ratio on cycle, and dunno what it should be, but I wouldn’t dare to let E2 go into the several hundreds as advised by some here ( the poster here mentioning the advice from the proBBer mentioned a ratio as low as 4, so with 2000 total test that would be E2@500). Test over 5000is common among juicers btw, i can recall several blood tests posted online with similar Test levels but none with the corresponding ultra high E2 (I don t read all blood tests posted either)


#62

My point exactly, I’ve spent hours researching e2 and so far haven’t come up with anything stating what’s been said in this thread. I know what it feels like when my e2 rises and it isnt fun at all.