T Nation

High DHT While on TRT


#1

-35 Years Old
-height - 5.10
-waist - 41 "
-weight - 235
-describe body and facial hair - great amount of facial hair, Low amount on arms , legs , almost no hair on back,chest and stomach filled with body hair( but all my body hair is thin and shorter than 1 inch.

-describe where you carry fat and how changed ( Belly and Chest only, very muscular overall. ( loosing fat daily Slow but steady )

-health conditions, symptoms [history] ( No health issues )
-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever ( No hair loss, no drugs but , testosterone, and Test DHT derivatives )

-lab results with ranges ( Follows bellow )

-describe diet - Now eating really well, mostly Organic, Lots of meat, Organic red Eggs, at least 6 daily, brown rice, beans, Brocoly daily bases, no white bread, no alcohol, some brown sugar, no fluoridate water ever, no Sodas, nothing from " gas station such as " potato chips, and on, My problem is that I eat a Lot, and at night...

-describe training - 5 days a week really intense 1 hour per session.
-testes ache, ever, with a fever? ( NEVER )
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed ( Now every day ) Before testosterone shoots , never had any more, for years...

To begin with I must say, if wasn't for T-Nation I would be in a very bad spot now. I am a 37 y.o Male from Brazil, I do suffer from Hipogonadism,Low T, my levels by December last year were down to the 200's ( One Cicle of 4 week in my early 20's that's it )Never took anything else since that time. .. Without going to deep on a subject that has been read and written countless times, let me go right away to my problem.

I wasn't doing well until I got in tune with 200mg o Test Cypionate a week + HCG 250ui EOD. My TRT really started in Mid February, after I decided to care for my self instead of fighting with Doctors all over....

When I first went to the Doc and got myself some " Testosterone" In Late November 2014, in which was prescribed 200mg every 30 days, or every 20 days... ( I know this happens all over,) I decided to follow what felt right for me, with another Doctor whose helped me with 200mg per week.

Mid May, my Doctor, told me I need to Trim down a bit, in order to look a bit more " defined " I swear to all GODS of Old, he suggested me Anavar.. without me asking for it ....
I felt , what the heck lets do it, I can see myself losing some fat, i did like a lot, but nothing I couldn't live without, Latter came next visit, why not some PRIMOBOLAN , I said Super ! Guys I am NOT messing around, he's a cool guy ans was the one who plant the " seed " on my head ..

All I wanted was to get more Testosterone written down to me,so I could save it for the year... Anyhow ... He always had something new to me...
Then I was on 60 MG of Anavar every workout day, 5 times a week, plus 400mg of Primo twice a week ( Pharma grade injectable ), and up my dosage to 400mg of test twice a week + 250 ui of HCG ....

Than all the Acne started to go crazy !!! ... I decided to cut off 100% the Anavar, and went back to my 200mg of Test , Every 3 days 100mg ( 200mg per week )Before I was on 200mg single shoot per week, and honestly wasn't felling the Ups and downs, ( just Acne ), also cutoff HCG as well... ( not felling as good without it as i did while on HCG ) ...
I am Still on Primo as the idea was to go on for 20 weeks, currently on week 6 on Primo.( But I really care not, I can come off now as I ratter have no Acne, and keep my hair )

Funny thing is, I got a hair cut, after years of being a long haired dude, and noticed a " fail " spot on the back ( Crown ) ... I don't recall it being there ... I does not look I am going bald, I think I may be thinning down a bit, but not much .... But it already got me concerned enough ...

So I went ahead and had another blood drawn, this time for the first time took a DHT level, as follows bellow.

TOTAL T - 1043 ng/dl ( lab reference 241 - 827 ng/dl )
17 BETA-ESTRADIOL - 18.7 ng/dl ( lab reference MAX- ADULT 39.8 ng/dl )
DHT - 1366.2 pg/ml ( lab reference 250 - 990 pg/ml )

So clearly I am way too high on DHT ,I was taking Arimidex to lower my previous E2 exam which was over 64 ng/dl about a month back,( I told 1 mg EOD maybe way too much ) now following advice's here I will do 0,50 twice a week with the shots, as i noticed my erections are not that strong any longer... ( maybe due to no HCG as well?)

I really need a help, I just bought some Finesteride, to lower my DHT, but reading a lot , I became concern it may do more harm than good, i am taking 7Grams of B5 daily it seemed to help a lot, But not completely ...

Guys what should i do to lower my DHT ?

Am I, over concerning myself with it ?

The T- replacement has being a Miracle in my life, I was down ans depressed big time, now I fell like, I can conquer the world ( At least my little corner of the universe ) And Hope I can continue with it...

Hope anyone could help me.. as I totally lost now :frowning:

Cheers from Brazil ! :slightly_smiling:


#2

Have you read some of the stickies? Start with ‘advice for new guys’ if you have not.

With 200mg T per week, we expect to see DHT that exceeds normal range. DHT is important for libido and maintenance of the sex organs. These DHT levels are probably mostly a concern for those genetically disposed to balding.

fT is what you should be most interested in.

You should be done CBC [complete blood count] and watching hematocrit that can be too high on larger T doses.

What exactly was your protocol for that lab work and how long had that been steady before the labs?

Without hCG your testes will become small and might ache.

Your hair loss may have been from a combo of your DHT + primo.
"hair loss still, remains a very real concern with Primobolan"
So perhaps the worst is over. There are medicated shampoos that can be useful.


#3

Thanks Ksman, Sorry if I jumped up the wagon too soon, just got my question edited to follow up the Forum Guidelines.

My First blood exam after running Testosterone Cypionate alone at 200mg ( after 20 days ( Single Shot, ran this blood test after I knew I was not felling " Great " on that Injection protocol )

Date 12/16/20014

TSH - 1.39 ui/ml - ( Lab references @ 0.5 - 5.0 ui/ml
T4 - 1.28 ng/dl - ( Lab references @ 0.70 - 1.80 ng/dl
Total Testosterone - 310 ng/dl - ( Lab references @ 241 - 827 ng/dl
T -Free - 8.31 ng/dl
Bio Available T - 194.76 ng/dl
SHBG - 17.9 nmol/L

Date 12/29/2014

T4 - 1.34 ng/dl - ( Lab references @ 0.70 - 1.80 ng/dl
Total Testosterone - 204
T -Free - 4.98
Bio Available T - 116.62

Date - 1/14/2015 ( 200mg Testosterone Cypionate per week 1 single shoot )

Total T - 1069
SHBG - 12.4
T -Free - 37.04
Bio Available T - 867.96

Date - 1/22/2015 ( 200mg Testosterone Cypionate per week 1 single shoot )

IGF-1 - 384.0 ng/ml ( Lab references @ 115 - 307 ng/ml )
IGFBP-3 - 4.92 ug/ml ( Lab references @ 3,4 - 6,7 ug/ml )

Date - 2/13/2015 ( 200mg T-Cypionate + Anavar 40mg (day)+ HCG 250ui day )

17 -Beta Estradiol - 66.2 pg/ml ( Lab references MAX - 39.8 pg/ml )
Total T - 1115 ng/dl

Date 5/28/2015 ( 400mg Test + 400Mg Primo + 60Mg Anavar + 500 ui HCG ( week ) + Arimidex 1 mg twice a week )

TOTAL T - 1043 ng/dl ( lab reference 241 - 827 ng/dl )
17 BETA-ESTRADIOL - 18.7 ng/dl ( lab reference MAX- ADULT 39.8 ng/dl )
DHT - 1366.2 pg/ml ( lab reference 250 - 990 pg/ml )

So that’s my entire blood work schedule so far.
I must say that from 3 weeks back I completely stopped with Anavar, HCG and went back to 200mg of Test in divided shots, 100mg Monday and Thursday .

Hope now I can get in tune with everything, KsMan, do you think I should try to find a " perfect " DHT level ? or as mentioned on the " Stickies " T goes Up and so does DHT, regardless… About the hair thinning, I am afraid to use Finasteride, cause of all the sides I’ve read about, really don’t know if I should wait till DHT naturally drops, or I should take some Finesteride to lower the high amount I am currently in. ( Hair thinning is probably an Over concern of mine, as probably all high the DHT levels is Primobolan Related sides…

It got me worried, but I am sure I am overreacting to it … My biggest hardship now is Acne, buy seems to be well behaved after the B5 and divided T-shoots instead of 1 single per week.

I will keep on reading onto other topics, sorry for my " newbie ’ mistakes.

Really appreciated your feed back.