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High Cholestrol Levels, Very Concerned. Opinions?


#1


My nutrition has been on point for the last 7 months and i was very confident when i decided to have my bloodwork done. I am shocked at these results. Can eating 2 whole eggs everyday affect cholestrol levels negatively? By the way my HDL is above the reference numbers. Is that a good thing? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.


#2

[quote]Gorillakiv83 wrote:
My nutrition has been on point for the last 7 months and i was very confident when i decided to have my bloodwork done. I am shocked at these results. Can eating 2 whole eggs everyday affect cholestrol levels negatively? By the way my HDL is above the reference numbers. Is that a good thing? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.[/quote]

Dietary cholesterol doesn’t make much of a difference. Total cholesterol and even LDL HDL numbers aren’t that great of a measurement. You’re triglyceride to HDL ratio is probably the best indicator of the numbers you posted, and your ratio is really good. The other ratio you can look at is HDL to LDL and even though your LDL is high, your ratio isn’t bad.


#3

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

You’re trigliceride to HDL ratio is probably the best indicator of the numbers you posted, and your ratio is really good. The other ratio you can look at is HDL to LDL and even though your LDL is high, your ration isn’t bad.[/quote]

Can you elaborate? My LDL always runs high but my Triglycerides are always in Range as well as my HDL


#4

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Gorillakiv83 wrote:
My nutrition has been on point for the last 7 months and i was very confident when i decided to have my bloodwork done. I am shocked at these results. Can eating 2 whole eggs everyday affect cholestrol levels negatively? By the way my HDL is above the reference numbers. Is that a good thing? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.[/quote]

Dietary cholesterol doesn’t make much of a difference. Total cholesterol and even LDL HDL numbers aren’t that great of a measurement. You’re trigliceride to HDL ratio is probably the best indicator of the numbers you posted, and your ratio is really good. The other ratio you can look at is HDL to LDL and even though your LDL is high, your ration isn’t bad.[/quote]

+1


#5

thanks for the comments.
i read some articles about lowering bad cholestrol and all of them say oat decreases ldl.
is that correct?


#6

[quote]Gorillakiv83 wrote:
thanks for the comments.
i read some articles about lowering bad cholestrol and all of them say oat decreases ldl.
is that correct?[/quote]

Eh. There are multiple kinds of LDL. Some LDL doesn’t have anything to do with heart disease but would be counted in that test. So, you don’t really know if your LDL is a problem to begin with.

LDL isn’t really “bad” anyway. Your body produces it and your liver maintains its’ level for a reason. Cholesterol actually works to repair arteries kinda like a scab. If you have a rash that causes huge scabs that don’t go away, the cure is to get rid of the rash, not stop your body from producing scabs.

There is correlation between grains like oats and lower LDL. However, carbs also lower your HDL and raise your triglycerides. So you may be able to slightly decrease your LDL number that way, but more than likely you will make the stronger indicators for heart disease (those ratios) worse because of the effects on HDL and triglycerides.

You can always try it and re-test, but if you are really that concerned, you need a particle size test to see how much of what kinds of LDL and HDL you have.


#7

Do you have any family history of heart disease?


#8

DoubleDuce, if you don’t mind my asking, what is your profession?

(I’m a cardiovascular epidemiologist and rarely encounter someone who actually understands this stuff)


#9

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
Do you have any family history of heart disease?[/quote]

No, did you see something suspicious in my numbers?


#10

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
DoubleDuce, if you don’t mind my asking, what is your profession?

(I’m a cardiovascular epidemiologist and rarely encounter someone who actually understands this stuff)[/quote]

Ä°ts good to hear that. Do you also think there is nothing to worry about in my bloodwork like doubleduce does?


#11

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
DoubleDuce, if you don’t mind my asking, what is your profession?

(I’m a cardiovascular epidemiologist and rarely encounter someone who actually understands this stuff)[/quote]

I’m no authority on the subject, just an engineer with a bad family history of heart disease and astronomical cholesterol levels. Doctors wanted me on statins in my early 20s. I’ve basically just read every book about the subject I could get my hands on, from food and diet books, to books directly on heart disease, to the history of influence between the government, lobbies, and medical associations. I’m a just an analytical layman with good motivation to learn the subject. That’s how I deal with stuff in life, I read and study.

I’m glad to hear there are some doctors out there reading and thinking like I do about the subject. You’d be amazed at some of the fights I’ve had to have with doctors. It’s quite the complement to get a response like that from someone of your profession.


#12

[quote]Gorillakiv83 wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
DoubleDuce, if you don’t mind my asking, what is your profession?

(I’m a cardiovascular epidemiologist and rarely encounter someone who actually understands this stuff)[/quote]

�°ts good to hear that. Do you also think there is nothing to worry about in my bloodwork like doubleduce does?
[/quote]

Yes, my advice would largely mirror what DoubleDuce has said.

Your high level of HDL is good. Your triglyceride/HDL ratio is good. Your total and LDL are “high” but the field is slowly moving away from those as markers of CVD risk anyway. The American College of Cardiology and the American Heart Association have finally come around and lifted the recommendation to limit egg consumption (or monitor dietary cholesterol in general).

My suspicion is that yes, eating the eggs may have contributed to a moderate increase in your total cholesterol, but no, that isn’t something I would be worried about. And please, stay away from lipid-lowering medications at all costs.

I think we’re still a little bit away from using the various HDL and LDL particle sizes as true diagnostic measures, but we definitely do know now that they are more important than the total cholesterol numbers we have been using.

BTW, Gorilla, you look fucking great since you’ve cut down.


#13

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
The American College of Cardiology and the American Heart Association have finally come around and lifted the recommendation to limit egg consumption (or monitor dietary cholesterol in general).[/quote]

I just read that this morning. Do you know if they are completely doing away with recommendations for it, including generic dietary recommendations for high risk people?


#14

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
The American College of Cardiology and the American Heart Association have finally come around and lifted the recommendation to limit egg consumption (or monitor dietary cholesterol in general).[/quote]

I just read that this morning. Do you know if they are completely doing away with recommendations for it, including generic dietary recommendations for high risk people?[/quote]

No, I think they’re still couching it for certain “high risk” groups to limit cholesterol consumption. Which is fucking dumb, IMO. Some of the high-risk groups they’re identifying are Type 2 diabetics, who need to limit their fucking carbs, not their egg intake.

I’m leaving my office now, but I’ll return to discuss more on this thread tomorrow if you have questions about what you’ve read.


#15

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
The American College of Cardiology and the American Heart Association have finally come around and lifted the recommendation to limit egg consumption (or monitor dietary cholesterol in general).[/quote]

I just read that this morning. Do you know if they are completely doing away with recommendations for it, including generic dietary recommendations for high risk people?[/quote]

No, I think they’re still couching it for certain “high risk” groups to limit cholesterol consumption. Which is fucking dumb, IMO. Some of the high-risk groups they’re identifying are Type 2 diabetics, who need to limit their fucking carbs, not their egg intake.

I’m leaving my office now, but I’ll return to discuss more on this thread tomorrow if you have questions about what you’ve read.[/quote]

AHA. tell me about it.

They always hedge their bets when anything changes. Not because of facts or evidence, but because none of them have the balls to say the emperor has no clothes. Whenever I read anything they say to the press about stuff like this it’s always 2 steps forward 1.9 steps back. They say one thing about the evidence and then manage, by the end of the statement, to recommend something that is at least mildly contrary to the evidence they just presented.

I’m always open to reading recommendations on the subject too.


#16

The following is not medical advise:

  1. HDL is better if higher in general and 60+ is not a bad thing, just atypically high

  2. LDL is no longer considered a great indicator by itself. Depending on the exact density, “LDL” can be bad or basically not a factor

  3. Triglycerides being kept lowish is typically a good thing. Triglycerides can be high if you tend to have high blood sugar, and also if you have a lot of net fructose in your diet as the liver will turn fructose into triglycerides if glycogen needs are met. Triglycerides can also be high from a LOW carb diet in part because it stimulates fatty acid mobilization and DECREASES insulin sensitivity-notice: insulin sensitivity is decreased when carbs go below about 120-180 grams a day on a 2500 cal diet.

The best diet for low triglycerides is one with 120-180 grams of carbs a day/2500 cals, AND with the carbs coming primarily from glucose polymers, pure glucose, and lactose. Also as much as 1/2 drink of alcohol per day can raise triglycerides, especially the worst ones. Net fructose should be under 4% of maintenence calories and 33% of exercise recovery needs.

  1. Triglyerides build on fructose and omega-6s, are probably the primary dietary instigator of vascular disease as well as cancer.

  2. Saturated fat and monounsaturated fat are basically incapable of instigating cardiovascular disease as they are not easily oxidized in the blood.

  3. Cholesterol probably prevents the beginning stages of heart disease as it is sent to the damaged blood vessels specifically to reinforce the cell membranes to help them heal. A cholesterol score by itself, means basically nothing until you already have damage caused by oxidative triglycerides, and often exacerbated by aerobic work/exercise. As a result, a statin drug taken by someone who has no sascular damage yet actually works to block the body’s method of healing vascular damage (ie sending cholesterol to the site).

  4. If you already have out of control vascular damage then cholesterol may become a runaway problem that causes increase blockages, So cholesterol becomes a profound issue if you already have damage caused by omega 6s, sugar, or excessive aerobic exercise, or other stress or other chemical source of arterial scarring.

  5. Lastly, having high cholesterol, in spite of a generally low cholesterol diet may be a sign that the body has microvascular damage. The natural production of cholesterol is stimulated so that it can be sent to damaged capillaries to heal them. Do you smoke, drink alcohol, eat a high omega-6 diet, eat a high sugar diet or run excessively (more than 25-35 kilometers per week?).


#17

I think the cholesterol tests in Turkey calculate the LDL-c rather than LDL-p, which is a better indicator, might as well check that.


#18

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]Gorillakiv83 wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
DoubleDuce, if you don’t mind my asking, what is your profession?

(I’m a cardiovascular epidemiologist and rarely encounter someone who actually understands this stuff)[/quote]

�?�°ts good to hear that. Do you also think there is nothing to worry about in my bloodwork like doubleduce does?
[/quote]

Yes, my advice would largely mirror what DoubleDuce has said.

Your high level of HDL is good. Your triglyceride/HDL ratio is good. Your total and LDL are “high” but the field is slowly moving away from those as markers of CVD risk anyway. The American College of Cardiology and the American Heart Association have finally come around and lifted the recommendation to limit egg consumption (or monitor dietary cholesterol in general).

My suspicion is that yes, eating the eggs may have contributed to a moderate increase in your total cholesterol, but no, that isn’t something I would be worried about. And please, stay away from lipid-lowering medications at all costs.

I think we’re still a little bit away from using the various HDL and LDL particle sizes as true diagnostic measures, but we definitely do know now that they are more important than the total cholesterol numbers we have been using.

BTW, Gorilla, you look fucking great since you’ve cut down.[/quote]

thanks man!
both for your compliment and taking your time to explain your opinions.
i dropped egg yolks completely, switched from full fat dairy to non-fat dairy and stopped eating red meat.
on march 9th i will be tested again.
if my ldl drops down, i will understand that eating cholesterol and saturated fat raised it.
if it doesnt drop down, i think it will be appropriate to see a doctor.


#19

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
The following is not medical advise:

  1. HDL is better if higher in general and 60+ is not a bad thing, just atypically high

  2. LDL is no longer considered a great indicator by itself. Depending on the exact density, “LDL” can be bad or basically not a factor

  3. Triglycerides being kept lowish is typically a good thing. Triglycerides can be high if you tend to have high blood sugar, and also if you have a lot of net fructose in your diet as the liver will turn fructose into triglycerides if glycogen needs are met. Triglycerides can also be high from a LOW carb diet in part because it stimulates fatty acid mobilization and DECREASES insulin sensitivity-notice: insulin sensitivity is decreased when carbs go below about 120-180 grams a day on a 2500 cal diet.

The best diet for low triglycerides is one with 120-180 grams of carbs a day/2500 cals, AND with the carbs coming primarily from glucose polymers, pure glucose, and lactose. Also as much as 1/2 drink of alcohol per day can raise triglycerides, especially the worst ones. Net fructose should be under 4% of maintenence calories and 33% of exercise recovery needs.

  1. Triglyerides build on fructose and omega-6s, are probably the primary dietary instigator of vascular disease as well as cancer.

  2. Saturated fat and monounsaturated fat are basically incapable of instigating cardiovascular disease as they are not easily oxidized in the blood.

  3. Cholesterol probably prevents the beginning stages of heart disease as it is sent to the damaged blood vessels specifically to reinforce the cell membranes to help them heal. A cholesterol score by itself, means basically nothing until you already have damage caused by oxidative triglycerides, and often exacerbated by aerobic work/exercise. As a result, a statin drug taken by someone who has no sascular damage yet actually works to block the body’s method of healing vascular damage (ie sending cholesterol to the site).

  4. If you already have out of control vascular damage then cholesterol may become a runaway problem that causes increase blockages, So cholesterol becomes a profound issue if you already have damage caused by omega 6s, sugar, or excessive aerobic exercise, or other stress or other chemical source of arterial scarring.

  5. Lastly, having high cholesterol, in spite of a generally low cholesterol diet may be a sign that the body has microvascular damage. The natural production of cholesterol is stimulated so that it can be sent to damaged capillaries to heal them. Do you smoke, drink alcohol, eat a high omega-6 diet, eat a high sugar diet or run excessively (more than 25-35 kilometers per week?).[/quote]

thanks man for taking your time. i appreciate it.


#20

[quote]Gorillakiv83 wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]Gorillakiv83 wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
DoubleDuce, if you don’t mind my asking, what is your profession?

(I’m a cardiovascular epidemiologist and rarely encounter someone who actually understands this stuff)[/quote]

�??�?�°ts good to hear that. Do you also think there is nothing to worry about in my bloodwork like doubleduce does?
[/quote]

Yes, my advice would largely mirror what DoubleDuce has said.

Your high level of HDL is good. Your triglyceride/HDL ratio is good. Your total and LDL are “high” but the field is slowly moving away from those as markers of CVD risk anyway. The American College of Cardiology and the American Heart Association have finally come around and lifted the recommendation to limit egg consumption (or monitor dietary cholesterol in general).

My suspicion is that yes, eating the eggs may have contributed to a moderate increase in your total cholesterol, but no, that isn’t something I would be worried about. And please, stay away from lipid-lowering medications at all costs.

I think we’re still a little bit away from using the various HDL and LDL particle sizes as true diagnostic measures, but we definitely do know now that they are more important than the total cholesterol numbers we have been using.

BTW, Gorilla, you look fucking great since you’ve cut down.[/quote]

i dropped egg yolks completely, switched from full fat dairy to non-fat dairy and stopped eating red meat.

[/quote]

NO!! Don’t do that!! Don’t do ANY of it. This is straight from the “Wrong Diet Advice 101” that has led America astray for the past several decades.