Tenmen you argue well, but your arguments have a single fatal flaw. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT SOMEONE ELSE’S DISEASE PROCESS IS LIKE. Do you know that the individual you are recomending this risky behavior to doesn’t have any cardiovascular defects?
Heres a good current example: JOHN RITTER. He had a weakness in the lining of his aorta= dead. A rise in pressures could easily cause death in somebody who otherwise seemed healthy. Another example would be berry aneurisms - if you don’t know this do your home work. The only way one can tell if they are at risk for this is by radiographic scans of the head via CT or MRI. Most people never know they have a weakness in the lining of a vessel in their head until it is too late, and they suffer an anerism and die.
So who the F**K are you to recomend taking steroids with highblood pressure meds and all to anyone! Just shut you mouth! You have done enough damage as is.
Sheesh!
Guys, this difference doesn’t need to devolve into personal attacks. You are approaching the situation in question from different perspectives and you’re both making some good points. I’ve learned a little bit from the both of you.
Without differing views there would be no discussion, and therefore no learning. As far as I’m concerned, anyone with a brain that has done some homework is welcome to voice their opinion.
Prisoner#22, You wrote: <Do you know that the individual you are recomending this risky behavior to doesn’t have any cardiovascular defects?>
Hey goofy…this is Steroid BB! Risky behavior is what this is about…duh.
OK, Want me to tell you how to burn fat with a combination of DNP and Crystal Meth.?
fall guy was the shit.
TENMEN this may be steroid BB but I think everyone here on the forum agrees that we try to do it in the safest way possible. You can’t group self administration of steroids and self administration of potentially dangerous blood pressure medications in the same basket.
Many of the questions raised on this forum are health related. I don’t think it is wise to send someone down a path unless he/she is fully aware of the potential health risks involved. You did not do this, you encourged somebody else to participate in the risky behavior which you yourself do.
Unlike you, I know what I am talking about. I have undergone the training and the studies and am in a position of knowledge to recommend what actions this person should choose.
Yes Mdog, I am the shit. Remember Jody?? Anyway I understand where you 2 guys are comming from, but it should not lead to any hostilities. But lets say I am not able to get my BP down because of genetics, then P22 has gave me some good info. And I agree you can’t lump everyone together that has High BP or any particular health concern together, you need to know their specific history. I think this is a great discussion though. But sooner or later (it will be later) I am going to use, so could you please give some different recommendations. I read steroids for health on others, and it is my opinion that I should stick with the more anabolic drugs than the androgenic ones. For example Primo, Deca, EQ, low doses of Test, winny, turinabol, MAG-10, etc…, the ones that does not cause any excessive fluid retention. What do you all think, because correct me if I am wrong but the reason BP goes up on cycle is because all the extracellular fluid that is gained, if you avoid this, and monitor yourself you should have little problems. Thanks for all of your participation.
Prisoner#22: Don’t even think of going over to the Meso BB. If you do, I think your heart will explode, brain will swell, dick will shrivel, and your liver will fall out.
So long stick man…hehe
TenMan thanks for your response, but you hijacked my post, how about answering my question?
I dunno, you guys are going at it from opposite sides of the spectrum. I hang at Meso as well. BUT I will always try to err on the side of caution and will heed the advice of someone overcauious rather then to someone over zealous. But thats just me. Colt only you will make these decisions. Be smart. Learn more about different things. Primo would probably be your best bet regarding steroids that won’t raise BP.
Colt, I am sorry about loosing it on TENMEN there. Its just that I am concerned for your safety. It just really angers me when I hear people giving advise to others without thought to the consequences of such advise.
So It is obvious that you are intent on using steroids, so here are my most well though out ideas:
First off, all steroids decrease excretion of sodium and potasium to some extent which will lead to varying degrees of edema. All steroids have negative effects to varying degrees on lipid leves. All steroids raise hematocrit levels(ratio of blood cells to serum - or simply thickens blood), which can contribute to development of thrombi (clot) and Stroke. With higher blood pressures, you are even at greater risk.
with this in mind here are some guidelines I have drawn up:
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Monitor your blood pressure on a daily basis while on your cycle.
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Use only steroids that are in suspension or have short half lives like acetate, propinate, or orals - dbols and Abombs are probably not good choices. This way if your pressures become too high you can discontinue your drugs immediately
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prophylactic use of 80mg of enteric coated aspirin per day will lower your risk for development of thrombi (clot), and stroke.
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I recommend that you plan a short cycle to begin with, like a three week cycle. But if you decide to go longer make sure you are prepared to cease your cycle at any point that your BP becomes too high
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Clomid throughout cycle - has a positive effect on plasma lipid levels
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Flax seed oil in moderate amounts, once again has been found to positively effect plasma lipid levels, and also is a mild diuretic.
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Of course no caffiene intake or other stimulates at all.
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Blood donation can help lower your risk of thrombi development as well.
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Limit your salt intake - many nutritional supplements have high amounts of sodium so this would be something to watch. There is so much sodium in the foods we eat as is.
That is all I can think of for now but I am sure there are others on the board who have some good ideas also
Solid… I like this guy.
P#22 and Spookaroo thanks so much. I do most of those suggestions already. All of my lipids were right on the money. I don’t know for sure if my BP is really that high all the time, its high but I do get anxious when its taken because I am worried what it might read. Next payday will buy an automatic BP cuff and monitor it in a more friendly place…(home) instead of the clinic. We will see if there is a difference.
As far as a “safe” and “effective” first cycles what do you guys (P#22 & Spookaroo ) think of high dose Mag-10 for 12 weeks and oral RSOC Turinabol 100-125mg daily for the first 8-10 weeks Clomid at 50mg daily for entire cycle and for 4-6 weeks after. Would this cycle be effective for the goals stated above? Both have short half lives, cause little if any water retention, and the Turinabol is not 17-alkalated? What do you think fellas?
Bumpin it up for Spookaroo and P#22.
How about some of PL Anavar thrown into the mix??
As I said before I think you should plan a 3 week cycle to begin with. Use fast-acting drugs that give little bloat.
My choices would probably be Tren, primo acetate tabs, test prop, and winstrol.
This would be one kick-ass cycle, which would kick in almost immediately the day you started it. It being your first cycle, you could gain a lot of muscle in three weeks if you eat lots.
I have gained personally 17 lbs on a three week cycle simmular to this.
I just think that to be on the safe side, you shouldn’t plan 12 week cycles to begin with. I myself only do 6 week cycles, which is plenty of time to put on lots of mass.
So you would like this then…ProTren/Prop(75mg Tren/100mg Prop), take 1cc daily, with 50 mg daily of Turinabol for 3 weeks? What about post cycle, Clomid, Armidex, Proscar, etc…? Could I do this cycle 3 weeks on 3 weeks off until my goals are met, how many cycles might I need to do? During the on weeks I can really increase the calories + protein, and the off weeks more of a maintance diet? This would help me maintain the gains,not gain alot of fat while bulking, and would be much cheaper than Mag-10 also. Thanks so much, hope that Spookaroo jumps back into the ring.
Could you go more into detail with the cycle you mentioned?
yep, COlt, that’s the right idea, I don’t think you need to do pro tren though because 700 mg of test per week is going to leave you fairly endematous.
I would do:
tren at 75 - 100mg ed
prop at 100mg eod or less
turinabol at 50mg ed
clomid 50 mg throughout and continue
taking it after the cycle for three weeks
I don’t think an aromatase inhibitor is neccessary for this cycle.
if all went well during your cycle, wait 6 weeks to two months then start up again for a 6 week cycle.
as far as eating goes, eat clean as much as you can. Keep a diet high in protien, and while on, higher in carbs. Restrict intake of saturated fats like animal fats of course, but increase your intake of dietary fats such as fish oils, canola, flax e.t.c.
Include lots of fruits and vegitables and whole grains… basically eat a balance diet.
Studies have shown that folic acid, B6 and B12 vitamins have a positive affect on plasma lipid levels and can actually reduce arteriosclerotic plaque: (Peterson JC, Spence JD. What level of plasma homocyst(e)ine should be treated? Effects of vitamin therapy on progression of carotid atherosclerosis in patients with homocyst(e)ine levels above and below 14 mmol/L. Am J Hypertens 2000; 13(Jan.):105-10.)
With that been said whole grains are a great source of these nutrients.
Also try methoxy-7 after or even during your cycle.
I hope this helps.
Try using 200mg primo a week 100/100 and the same for the winnie. Add a little test prop as it will hold less water. Try 200 of that a week at 100/100. Test cyp made me hold a lot of water and the BP shot up but not too high 160/88 and the doctor did not prescibe anything as she understands it will come down after my cycle. After I stopped the T, the BP dropped and I lost excess water. THe Winny and Primo will keep you hard and keep some size on you and they are good at not retaining fluid. Keep your cycle to 6-8 weeks.