T Nation

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#1041

I don’t follow. You can post whatever you want.

Nothing to do with feelings? I find that a little bit funny

Everything to do with equal rights? Not funny to me.

I’m curious which particular rights were denied under the legal system that did not recognize gay marriages previously, if any?

I understand there’s issues with discriminating on the basis of gender, race, age, etc and those can be tied to ‘unequal rights’, but the boldness* of your words leads me to wonder if there were any particular rights being denied in particular

  • Nothing to do with X, everything to do with Y

#1042

If anti gay marriage people can object to the government recognizing gay marriage based on feelings then gays can base their reasons for wanting to get married on feelings as well.

What rights were denied when interracial marriage was illegal?


#1043

I find an if/then statement extremely odd here

People can object to the government doing anything based on anything

That’s probably free speech

Again the distinction between a certain marriage being illegal vs simply not recognized

This might help some

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/first-cousins-petitioning-utah-legalize-marriage-ive-always-felt-like-life-wasnt-fair-231121625.html


#1044

The answer is…the 14th amendment. The Supreme Court ruled that anti- miscegenation laws violated the RIGHTS which the 14th amendment protected. It then applied the same reasoning to gay marriage.

It seems that you don’t realize that there were actual laws against interracial marriage and it wasn’t about interracial marriage not being recognized, whatever that even means. Interracial couples risked going to jail.

As far as gay marriage, there was something known as DOMA.


#1045

I do and did realize that. It made sense to me for those laws to be found unconstitutional.

State recognized gay marriage is a far cry away from throwing people in prison for having a religious ceremony. ‘Religious ceremony’ reminds me of free speech


#1046

A state prohibiting citizens from the same legal protections based on their sexual orientation is not simply not recognizing gay marriage but making gay marriage illegal. I mean, if gay marriage is not legal then it is illegal.


#1047

I notice a difference between basing it on sexual orientation vs basing it on who they are marrying

I can’t recall anyone having an issue with a gay person getting married with someone of the opposite sex

I don’t agree - this statement is slightly comical.

Again the difference between not being granted an elevated status vs prison time

And to think that I don’t even think you’re trolling


#1048

So it wouldn’t have been a problem if two straight men wanted to marry each other? I know you want to try and be clever but the laws preventing same sex marriage clearly existed to discriminate against homosexuals.

You also make a flawed conclusion as not everything that is illegal carries a prison sentence. Also, what was preventing a gay couple from getting married? Oh yeah…the law. I think that is the same as saying it is illegal or if you prefer, not legal.

Besides any of this, you asked what rights were being violated and I mentioned the rights protected by the 14th amendment. This was the ruling of the Supreme Court. Why have you avoided that point?


#1049

And speaking of comical, saying that laws against interracial marriage violated the first amendment is silly. Especially when the court ruled they violated the 14th. But ignorance of history and facts never stopped anyone from posting their ignorance online.


#1050

Wasn’t really directed at you. I would think since the root cause of most of the disdain towards gays is religious it matters. And actually the religious did bring it up here but that’s not really that important.

And religion (and marriage) aren’t hurt by gay marriage. This is probably the reason why the Supreme Court ruled in favor and public opinion has massively shifted in favor.


#1051

Yeah I don’t understand this reasoning at all. Far as I know people never made the argument about interracial marriage and the first amendment.

But the religious had a problem with interracial marriage as well. Maybe the song meant to say Jesus loves certain little children?


#1052

I also don’t get how a state not allowing same sex marriage doesn’t mean it is illegal. Not recognizing a given marriage means that a state doesn’t consider a couple legally married. They may be two different things but they can both exist at the same time.


#1053

The Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes elects a Grand Poobah. That is not illegal. The Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes decides they want a different Grand Poobah prior to the end of that one’s elected term. The government can’t step in and prohibit it from stripping the Grand Poobah of his title and giving it someone else. The position of “Grand Poobah” exists. Not illegal; not sanctioned by the government.


#1054

A state bans same sex marriage. It has actual laws to back it up. That means illegal.


#1055

I don’t follow. That you open with a question leads me to think that you are trying to extrapolate my reasoning farther than I did. The way to extrapolate that line of thought would be to consider the legal recognition of a marriage between a gay man and a lesbian under the older laws.

‘Discriminate against’ is … that’s your opinion. I would agree with ‘distinguish between’.
I was interested in trying to be clever some number of years ago and that’s probably changed my habits and thinking style significantly, but no, that’s not the droids you’re looking for

I don’t recall making a conclusion.
I found it slightly comical at first when it seemed like you made a small accident.
It’s not comical anymore because prison sentences are world’s apart from not being granted higher status, syntax aside.

I asked about particular rights. ‘14th amendment’ didn’t really hit the spot for me.


#1056

It hit the spot for the Supreme Court. I know your internet law degree makes you more qualified and more relevant.


#1057

I didn’t notice you actually pointing out a particular right like I had asked, so I left it alone rather than demand an answer from a stranger on the internet who owes me nothing


#1058

The 14th amendment protects the right of equal protection under the laws. The court ruled that bans against gay, and interracial, marriage violated that right. In other words, they are unconstitutional. There you go.


#1059

Was that ever the case? What was the punishment for gay marriage? I know homosexual acts were once prohibited, but was it ever illegal for gays to claim to be married?


#1060

Yes. You couldn’t be punished for something that was not possible because the laws prevented it from happening in the first place.

Claim to be married? Just stop with the silliness.