T Nation

Hi God. Are You There? Are You Real?


What are these premises? Also, are you talking about arguments or proofs?

You mean, like Kant? Or Moses?

Unless you actually are wrong. But then again, I suppose we all have our own truth. Religion invented that concept.


Hence why, when I asked him if he was constructing a proof or argument, he avoided answering.


That doesn’t seem to make sense. An all powerful monotheistic God gets exactly what he wants, every time. Why wouldn’t He?


I tend to agree. Why does God work in strange ways? For one thing, the universe is far from completely understood by us humans. We keep making progress, but there are always new wonders coming to light. We should not be anthropocentric and assume everything just ought to suit us, and I don’t call it God.


I can think of instances where we have the power to get what we want out of people, but choose not to. At least in my own life.


Oh sure, the universe really doesn’t suit us. Our existence in it will be less than a blink. And then it too will likely die in heat death.



Having the power to get what you would want, but then choosing to forego that for the sake of some sort of higher principle, respect for the other, etc

When you choose not to, it’s because one desire outweighs the other.
Or said differently, your beliefs, values, etc lead you to that decision
Or said differently, that power you describe is actually an illusion. That decision is a reflection of who you are, which is a reflection of who you were.

And maybe not. I’m interested in seeing your response.

I would also add that an all powerful God doesn’t have the limitations we do. Meaning that he can get EXACTLY what He wants. He doesn’t find Himself in situations that surprise Him. He’s not surprised to learn that he is actually more compassionate than He thought he was and He’s going to forego x for sake of y.

I believe in fate more than I used to, but in a literal eternal Hell less than I used to. A static state with no end in sight sincerely approximates eternity well enough so as to be barely distinguishable.
An example could be a loop that has repeated for so long that you can barely remember anything that happened before it. And then it continues a little longer until you actually DO forget. And then maybe it continues for quadruple that. All you remember is the contents of the dreadful loop, you don’t even retain the capacity for hoping for something better. You don’t even remember how dreadful the loop used to be, it’s not as bad anymore since you can’t remember something better, you’ve grown used to it. You’ve suffered an eternity, and at some point you might belong elsewhere. Perhaps a blank slate, fit for reincarnation back to this heavenly plane of existence

(Not you, by the way)

I don’t expect that it will happen exactly that way, I expect to be surprised. I expect that He won’t be, and I expect that it will all go exactly as He designed. So maybe He does want everyone to worship Him eventually, and prefers to have some of us kicked around a bit longer than others. I’d recommend holding tightly to the idea of Him being perfect and getting exactly what He wants though.

I don’t mean to talk down to you, no disrespect intended. You probably needed none of this - I needed it

Salaam Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu


I’m with John Lennon on this, whatever gets you through the night baby.


Oh gosh, what a reply. A good one, don’t get me wrong. But one I’m not able to really tackle and be fair about in a discussion. You deserve a long reply back (perhaps many). In short, I’m running back and forth in my state these last couple of weeks. So much so longer posts sure seem daunting. Anyways, I find William Lane Craig’s arguments in favor of molinism compelling.

Take care and God bless.


I’ve always wondered if one was going in to a black hole and crosses the boundary where gravity becomes so intense that time slows to infinity, essentially trapping something in that infinitely small moment for an infinite span of time- if one would be stuck for all of eternity with that final thought. Whether it was terror or elation would determine whether or not you were in heaven or hell.

All of the descriptions of the physical actions of a black hole remind me of the classic descriptions of hell.

Therefore, Ancient Aliens.


Ah, nice.

So then Judgement Day could be when the black hole comes to earth?


No it’s when a extinction event sized meteor is on a collision course with Earth. Starring Ice-T and Mario Van Peebles…


It was a good video, I’ve seen a few from him now and they were all good


Hah, it occurred to me that God could be more massive than a black hole and meeting with Him might be something like what Skyz described



Imagine that though. Being trapped in an eternal moment with your very last thought. Wonder, amazement, terror, what ever thought your mind creates when confronted by a truly inexplicable cosmic force.




It’s hard, I’m trying

While thinking on it, I realized/remembered that in relativity you supposedly still experience time at the same rate for yourself and the people around you - it’s the people away from you who might be way older or younger. And if time slows super slow then also the electricity in your brain would too - meaning your thoughts relative to each other would still be at the same rate

My physics could be wrong tho

But physics aside, the part I quoted is difficult to consider. I can’t remember ever having sleep paralysis, but something like that would be the closest thing, minus the toe wiggling… or the ability to even think it… man that’s nuts


Pretty much.

There’s a small percentage of people who have very helpful ideas that seem crazy at first sight, yet we’d be crazy to leave it at that

Do you believe the contents of the picture you posted ought to be enough to wipe out religion?


Yes. I also find it interesting how theres hundreds of religions and thousands of gods but each claim to be the only one. :rofl: Like is the easter bunny real? No.


Hundreds of religions? Sure. I can see that.

Thousands of monotheistic God’s? I haven’t seen that.

Greeks, Romans weren’t claiming monotheism.
Hinduism might have, but they don’t claim each God (incarnate) to be “the only one”

Could you give me like 10 examples?