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hi all, and a few questions


howdy T-peeps. wondering what you would think of primobolan, alone, for a first AAS cycle for a female and male lifter who are brand new to AAS use.

Possible cycle would be 8 weeks at 200-300/(daily?) for him and about 2.5/daily for the gal, then clomid for him, but not sure how much or how long he should take. Also wondering if he would get better results if he started at a higher dose, maybe 300, and tapered down, or if that would be dangerous for a newbie.

Concerns are: gyno, liver toxicity, no needles (there is good reason not to have them around).

Goals are mainly bodyfat loss while gaining muscle or at least not losing muscle. He could probably be happy with just gaining some muscle, not a ton, and cutting up another time, and she could probably be happy with mainly cutting this first round. May not be a second round, not planning on making this a lifestyle.

Routines, nutrition, and rest schedules are disciplined and well researched; very committed. He is fairly advanced builder, she is intermediate.

Finally - not to put anyone on the spot but... HTF do you know if a supplier is on the up-and-up? is it worthwhile to subscribe to one of those AAS information services?

Your comments, observations, and advice are all very welcome.


Primo is in my view the safest steroid around. For a woman this would be the only drug I would recommend. Others may say anavar, but if sides are a concern stay clear of orals. For a men Primo is also an excellent drug, however by itself and within the ranges you want to use, gains will be minimum. Primo is usually used towards the end of a cycle, however having said that a friend made reasonable gains on a low-calorie diet while on Primo but he was using 800mgs per week.


After reading your post again I realized that you can't have needles around and so everything I said goes out the door. D-bol could be a good choice for you, but not for her.


for side effects with the orals, do you mean liver toxicity or something else?

i figured for her, with such low doses, oral primo would not have such an issue with toxicity. not true?

appreciate the suggestion of D-bol, will look into it!


if i'm not mistaken oral primo isn't 17aa. what's the reason for not wanting needles around? a primo dose of 200-300mg is useless, merely a bridging dose.


can adjust the dose on the primo, just going by something i read on one site. what would you suggest - 500, 800 weekly?

both parties are ex-drug addicts from way back. He in particular had a serious IV drug habit. been clean for ages but aside from being very cautious about this foray into AAS, just not going to risk playing with needles. if you haven't been one, you might not understand why needles alone could be a trigger, so please take my word for it; very dangerous juju. because interest is short-term, would rather incur some liver toxicity than toy with old habits.

forgive the double-talk but since i used my name to register this account i don't want to post anything i might later regret, however remote the possibility.


ex drug addicts should not play with any type of drugs. AAS are addicting in their own right.


If these people have kicked addictions to hardcore drugs, I'm sure that the mild attachment to AAS, which is mental and not physical, will not be a problem.


a drug is a drug is a drug. iv drug users are as much physiologically addicted as they are physically, not to hijack this thread but illegal drug use of any kind from a recovering addict is not a good idea.


what fun. do you like it when people lecture you on steroids and think they are somehow smarter and wiser than you and should tell you your business?

i appreciate the concern, i guess, but i'm not stupid and i don't take foolish chances. we've got 35 years sober between us and have made it that far using our own judgement. i'm trying to gather factual data about steroids and steroid use and practical advice about a cycle that might be appropriate for our goals.

still hoping someone can comment on dosage for the oral primo for a new-to-AAS advanced-level male lifter, and whether it is effective for bodyfat loss, or a suitable oral stack for such a newbie. i'm pretty sure an intermediate level female bodybuilder will be fine with the primo alone. i just don't want to get into anything too strong for someone new or too weak to be effective at all, or leave any important parts out of our cycle that might result in physical damage.


Not trying to be rude here but you do not know what it feels like to be jacked up on AAS yet either. These guys are just trying to help. We appreciate the honesty and all about your drug use but to say that you do not need a lecture is the wrong angle. I think you sorta do need a lecture here ONLY because you have no idea on how it can make one feel because you have never used these substances before, we have and yes, they can become addicting to those with an addictive personality which you have clearly demonstrated having. We are just trying to help you from making a mistake and ensure you are absolutly positive that you want to venture down this road.


thanks, that's been one of the questions on my mind. i've heard everything from "i feel nothing" to "i feel totally jacked up" so it's hard to tell what to expect. i don't mind being cautioned or being informed why i might want to reconsider. i just don't like being shut out or told what to do. i am a BIG girl! : )

so you are saying AAS give you a physical rush and potentially mind-altering?

is this ALL steroids or just particular ones? ergo might the more powerful ones or higher doses be more likely to "alter" the user's experience?


I disagree. I'm an ex drug addict and I refocused that energy into lifting and aas about 4-5 years ago and it's the best thing I've done. I think steroids are a GREAT thing for people wanting to leave drugs behind. Anyone who has done both aas and drugs knows that, relatively speaking, aas bring a very very mild cns effect. Oral primo is beta alkalated not alpha so hepatoxicity is not an issue. orals are better for women because women respond differently and it is easier to adjust dosage with orals if side effects begin to occur than it is with injectibles. For the man primo used exclusively will bring modest gains, for the woman if fat-loss and strength are most important go with anavar(I've seen this work well with women, including my own sis) if size gain is most important you could go with primo. I say you guys are making a great choice. You better watch out though, you may get hooked and end up with a nice physique.


I disagree. I'm an ex drug addict and I refocused that energy into lifting and aas about 4-5 years ago and it's the best thing I've done. I think steroids are a GREAT thing for people wanting to leave drugs behind.

Not picking on anybody here but come on now. Let's leave one drug for another?! I'll give up doing crack and stick to meth instead. I totally agree, the decision is yours to make and only you two will know exactly if you will become addicted only after you start doing them, which at that point would be too late now right? The only point I was trying to make is that you just need to be aware that the potential for abuse is there. There are so many mitigating factors that will come into how steroids can have an effect on your body that it is hard to say how they can or will effect you per say. My opinion, I would like to see you use injectable test prop. only because the half life is so short that if you had viralization you could stop immediately, with orals it is going to take awhile to get the blood levels up and then it may be too late, sorry, damage done. You need to understand that steroids have a far different and drastic effect on a woman than that of a man. Just be aware of what you are getting yourself into and be ready to accept the fact that with you being a woman, there is alot less forgivness than that of a man OK. I hope I did not upset you earlier. I really am just trying to help because addiction can be a real pain in the ass I am sure. Just be safe.


i think the only way we will know for sure is going to be to try it. i'm not sure if we will or not. i do want to have a clear and carefully considered plan if we do.

i really do appreciate the advice and reasonable concern.

based on some of the input here i'm now thinking maybe this for the guy - do you think it would be too much for a first cycle? he is about 200lbs now, btw.

4 weeks Anadrol 50mg, Primo 400
4 weeks Win 50mg, Primo 400
4 weeks Clomid

i'm thinking for me more like
8 weeks Anavar 30mg, maybe stacked with win 15mg, maybe alone

mesomorphosis.com says:
"Oxandrolone [Anavar] ... has a longer half life than Dianabol - 8 hours vs. 4 hours. Thus, a moderate dose taken in the morning is largely out of the system by night, yet supplies reasonable levels of androgen during the day and early evening."

this would mitigate the problem with build-up, wouldnt' it?
Winstrol, i dunno what the half-life is on it. i've heard good things about it and i've heard it's very risky for women.


For me primo is only beneficial if on a low carb and high protein diet. Being that said workout and get some muscle first, that way when you start your primo you at least have a bit of mass(if not you will look like broomsticks). Primobolan is mostly used as a pre-contest drug for bodybuilders that already have plenty of mass and don't want to risk losing there hard earned gains. Actually primo is the ultimate best steroid at preserving mass during a cutting phase and a calorie restricted diet. As for him, definately add some form of testosterone d-bol is a great choice if wanting to lay low on the needles. For her just wait and workout until you see a difference in body composition then add the primo and, do not use winny it is to risky, trust me i've seen it happen to alot of other women( women are more prone to side effects than men).


ok winstrol is out then, that's cool.

she may only go with 10mg/day on the anavar.

both peeps have a pretty decent amount of muscle. He's been lifting for around ten years. she's been lifting on and off for ages, but continuously for almost two. they've made some real gains and continue to improve as she is getting very conscious of the role of nutrition and rest. she's definitely a hard-gainer, he may not be, he's definitely more gifted, but i think he's plateaued and she just wants an edge.

where can i get some good information on eating while on AAS? like, at these levels, does he really need 4000 calories? i'm hearing at least 2mg protein a day (per lb bodyweight) and twice that in carbs. sound about right?


ellie, since this is new to you guys its just a matter of trial and error. So until you find the right method then will you find your true potentials


ellie, since this is new to you guys its just a matter of trial and error. So until you find the right method then will you find your true potentials