T Nation

HGH/Metformin cycle and Hypoglycemic

Hey Guys,

I wasn’t sure about the answer to this one so I could use some help from those more experienced with metformin.

I have a buddy that is hypoglycemic, he has done gear in the past and found that it is a little worse when he is on juice…he wants to do an HGH cycle and I was thinking he should do it with metformin to help slow the glucose uptake and keep his blood sugar a little more stable. He is planning to eat relatively low GI carbs, high protein.

He is taking the HGH to cut down (not to bulk up) and is taking it solo…he is just coming off a 10 week cycle of test/tren/mast which he built up a ton of muscle (went from 190 to 210 and lost 10-15%bf in the process) and just wants to really cut down and try to keep more of his gains by following it with 4iu 3x/w (training days) of GH (will be split into 2 x 2iu injects either IV or IM).

Comments? Concerns? I think this is a good plan but wasn’t sure as I don’t have a whole lot of understanding of hypoglycemia.

Thanks for your help guys,

FG

Do you mean he is diabetic? Being chronically hypoglycaemic makes no sense.

More info needed!

What is the cause of the hypglycemia? Fasting state, post-prandial, adrenal deficiency, hepatitis, renal impairment, etc?

Is this self diagnosed or did he get it done by an MD? He has a glucometer?

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:

I have a buddy that is hypoglycemic… I don’t have a whole lot of understanding of hypoglycemia…"
[/quote]

I am sure you won’t like this at all… but i try to treat all people the same as one another so…

Why are you advising him on using drugs for a condition you do not even slightly understand? (as is clear the way you speak about him ‘having’ hypoglycaemia)

I am all for self medication, but only if someone actually has the experience and knowledge to do so effectively and safely - but if not, hey, its their body.
But advising someone in an area you do not even moderately ‘get’ is really dodgy man.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
J-J wrote:
FuriousGeorge wrote:

I have a buddy that is hypoglycemic… I don’t have a whole lot of understanding of hypoglycemia…"

I am sure you won’t like this at all… but i try to treat all people the same as one another so…

Why are you advising him on using drugs for a condition you do not even slightly understand? (as is clear the way you speak about him ‘having’ hypoglycaemia)

I am all for self medication, but only if someone actually has the experience and knowledge to do so effectively and safely - but if not, hey, its their body.
But advising someone in an area you do not even moderately ‘get’ is really dodgy man.

You are really starting to piss me off now Joe.

One minute you are a noob, asking others for advice, and the next you are some sort of self-proclaimed ‘guru’, who claims to have trained “many, many men”.

Wind your neck in son. I’m sure you have given out shitloads of dodgy advice in your junkie days.

You know how it is, so don’t get all high and mighty on FG.

A friend asks you for advice, seeing as you have a reputation for that sort of thing. You either:

A) Tell him “Sorry, but I need to get more info” and then ask others - which is what FG is doing here.

B) Dispense what little (probably bad) advice you have anyway, just because being asked for your opinion makes you feel like king shit of turd hill.

FG has come to ask us for advice so he can assist his friend. I see nothing wrong with that, when the alternative - see the GP and try to get him to advise you on GH Vs hypoglycemia - is likely to be less effective.

At least here we have the likes of EgnatiosJ to advise him on this complicated subject.

FG: Whilst GH tends to generally cause hyperglycemia, is can have a paradoxical reaction in some folks (like my fiancee), driving blood sugar downwards (probably due to IGF1 triggering the insulin receptor in skeletal muscle, which it can do, but with roughly 20x less affinity than insulin).

If your friend suffers from an inherent inability to raise BG levels - for whatever reason - then Gh might cause an even more hypoG state or it may trigger a transient increase in BG which might cause a reactive insulin release, followed by an even deeper hypo. Not good.

If your friend is set on using then caution is obviously the watchword. I suggest starting with 1iu subQ (for slow release and hence more manageable/predicatable effects), before even considering i.m.

I.v. is probably off the cards, for at least as long as it takes to discern the cause of the hypoglycemia, if not forever.

That’s just my opinion though.

BBB[/quote]

Alex, I have been training people professionally for 7 years now. Over that time i have trained a hell of a lot of people… significantly more than you have i should add.

You don’t know me - do you? You have the small window of what i choose to write here… don’t take that and even begin to think you have some idea about me, my experience or whatever. it is very ignorant of you.

I came to this site FAR from a ‘noob’ when it came to training, diet and physiology… and in the area of PED it is down to my studying of textbooks and good on-line resources - spurred on by some info on this site, which meant my knowledge in the area improved very quickly.

Now - as i am sure you know as someone who was kicked out of their degree (yet still seems to put the letters after their name) - educating yourself (when done thoroughly) can be almost as fulfilling intellectually as a university based education.

As for ‘my junkie days’… well, no not really. Why would ‘my junkie’ days have anything to do with my giving advice?! lmao!

Seems like a pathetic and cheap shot to me - except the trouble is, not only am i PROUD of my roots, and the adversity i faced to get to where i am today, but you are the one who still enjoys a bit of coke here and there while i don’t touch a thing anymore.

Don’t throw stones… :wink:

As for advice on AAS or anything - training, diet whatever - i have never, nor would never assume to advise someone in an area i have no idea about. I may try to help through discussion but i would NEVER ‘put’ someone on a drug, let alone a drug that is for a condition i dont even understand.

Don’t assume you know jack about me Alex… I am no more ‘guru’ than anyone else here who posts answering questions and discussion options.

If i see a post by anyone where they are acting irresponsibly, i will probably point that out - JUST as i would get treated myself!
That is just me, and sorry ‘bud’ but i aint going to stop just because it pisses you off…

I really couldn’t care less my hairy backed brother.

dogging on everyone is the cool thing BBB, everyone’s doing it

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]J-J wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
J-J wrote:
FuriousGeorge wrote:

I have a buddy that is hypoglycemic… I don’t have a whole lot of understanding of hypoglycemia…"

I am sure you won’t like this at all… but i try to treat all people the same as one another so…

Why are you advising him on using drugs for a condition you do not even slightly understand? (as is clear the way you speak about him ‘having’ hypoglycaemia)

I am all for self medication, but only if someone actually has the experience and knowledge to do so effectively and safely - but if not, hey, its their body.
But advising someone in an area you do not even moderately ‘get’ is really dodgy man.

You are really starting to piss me off now Joe.

One minute you are a noob, asking others for advice, and the next you are some sort of self-proclaimed ‘guru’, who claims to have trained “many, many men”.

Wind your neck in son. I’m sure you have given out shitloads of dodgy advice in your junkie days.

You know how it is, so don’t get all high and mighty on FG.

A friend asks you for advice, seeing as you have a reputation for that sort of thing. You either:

A) Tell him “Sorry, but I need to get more info” and then ask others - which is what FG is doing here.

B) Dispense what little (probably bad) advice you have anyway, just because being asked for your opinion makes you feel like king shit of turd hill.

FG has come to ask us for advice so he can assist his friend. I see nothing wrong with that, when the alternative - see the GP and try to get him to advise you on GH Vs hypoglycemia - is likely to be less effective.

At least here we have the likes of EgnatiosJ to advise him on this complicated subject.

FG: Whilst GH tends to generally cause hyperglycemia, is can have a paradoxical reaction in some folks (like my fiancee), driving blood sugar downwards (probably due to IGF1 triggering the insulin receptor in skeletal muscle, which it can do, but with roughly 20x less affinity than insulin).

If your friend suffers from an inherent inability to raise BG levels - for whatever reason - then Gh might cause an even more hypoG state or it may trigger a transient increase in BG which might cause a reactive insulin release, followed by an even deeper hypo. Not good.

If your friend is set on using then caution is obviously the watchword. I suggest starting with 1iu subQ (for slow release and hence more manageable/predicatable effects), before even considering i.m.

I.v. is probably off the cards, for at least as long as it takes to discern the cause of the hypoglycemia, if not forever.

That’s just my opinion though.

BBB

Alex, I have been training people professionally for 7 years now. Over that time i have trained a hell of a lot of people… significantly more than you have i should add.

You don’t know me - do you? You have the small window of what i choose to write here… don’t take that and even begin to think you have some idea about me, my experience or whatever. it is very ignorant of you.

I came to this site FAR from a ‘noob’ when it came to training, diet and physiology… and in the area of PED it is down to my studying of textbooks and good on-line resources - spurred on by some info on this site, which meant my knowledge in the area improved very quickly.

Now - as i am sure you know as someone who was kicked out of their degree (yet still seems to put the letters after their name) - educating yourself (when done thoroughly) can be almost as fulfilling intellectually as a university based education.

As for ‘my junkie days’… well, no not really. Why would ‘my junkie’ days have anything to do with my giving advice?! lmao!

Seems like a pathetic and cheap shot to me - except the trouble is, not only am i PROUD of my roots, and the adversity i faced to get to where i am today, but you are the one who still enjoys a bit of coke here and there while i don’t touch a thing anymore.

Don’t throw stones… :wink:

As for advice on AAS or anything - training, diet whatever - i have never, nor would never assume to advise someone in an area i have no idea about. I may try to help through discussion but i would NEVER ‘put’ someone on a drug, let alone a drug that is for a condition i dont even understand.

Don’t assume you know jack about me Alex… I am no more ‘guru’ than anyone else here who posts answering questions and discussion options.

If i see a post by anyone where they are acting irresponsibly, i will probably point that out - JUST as i would get treated myself!
That is just me, and sorry ‘bud’ but i aint going to stop just because it pisses you off…

I really couldn’t care less my hairy backed brother.[/quote]

i think the main thing is is that FG phrased the whole thing as a question …as in … i don’t know what to do can you guys offer advice? Not hey this is what i am doing. All semantics i guess, as far as i am concerned the only phd around here is Bill, the rest of us are just posing educated guesses based on research and experience so lets not attack each other…group hug?..maybe not

Seriously J-J, shit’s getting outta hand.

I mean, it’s ok when you pick on the n00bs, but picking on the vets is uncool

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

He never used to be like this. When i first started posting here about a year ago, he was so very understanding and patient and lovely. That’s when he had that black dude with a black bandana as his avatar.

But now he’s all like going out of his way to chastise people because he’s promoted himself grand chief chastiser.

FG, if you want to PM me with some more details, I am sure we could figure out a safe routine for him. I have only once read about a completely idiopathic hypoglycemic and that was a published case. Most hypoglycemic pts have some pathological defect that can be managed with some effort.

ok, well this turned into a massive clusterfuck as it usually does when you post JJ.

JJ - bro I have to say you could dissapear from this forum and I am not sure you would be missed by anyone…you constantly antagonize me like some sort of passive agressive jealous friend that doesn’t think it’s fair that I get all the pretty girls and get to be the captain of the football team while he rides the bench and gets stuck with the fat ones even though he knows in his heart he really is the deserving one…get off your fucking ego trip. We’re not in competition.

I am here asking advice of people who know what they are talking about because I KNOW that I am NOT qualified to advise him on this issue…that’s why I am here posting this and not simply telling this guy to take metformin.

I came here for the advice of people who know what they are talking about (EgJ specifically because I know he is very knowledgable on this area but I thought I would open it up because he is far from the only knowledgeable bro on this board and I have been very surprised sometimes at the knowledge I get from open discussion)…JJ, I have been consistently unimpressed by your contributions, as usual you provided me with nothing but posturing. Please do us all a favour, if you have nothing intelligent to add SHUT THE FUCK UP.

JUST so everyone is clear a friend who recently saw my results on GH was interested in doing the same to follow up his cycle (which I also advised him on, the cycle went very well and now he just wants to drop a little more fat and try to maintain as much muscle as possible) and asked me what type of GH cycle he should run so like a responsible person I told him what the potential side effects of such a cycle would be…along with the rest of the expected sides of the drug I mentioned to him that it would have an effect on glucose uptake to which he responded “really? cause I have hypoglycemia, I don’t see a doctor for it or anything which I probably should but I have noticed that it seems like my bloodsugar fluctuations are worse on gear”

…this got me thinking GH use might be an issue for him and that metformin (along with a low GI diet) might be a good addition to help stabilize his blood glucose levels during the GH cycle (or just in general) so I came here to ask the people who are qualified to answer my questions.

EgJ - thank you as always for your assistance…I don’t have the answers to your questions so I will need to see if he will jump on this thread so he can answer them or at the very least I will relay your questions to him and PM you.

Thanks,

FG

Wait a second …your the captain of the football team? damn i hate you now

ok so I talked to my friend and this was his response

I’m not sure what causes my hypoglycemia (or even if that is for sure what is the problem) - our Dr friend was the one who suggested that may be the problem. The morning of a wedding, we were all together in the hotel and my blood sugar was low, and Dr friend said he thought I was hypoglycemic and that I should drink some juice.

I have had my bloodwork done many times both fasting and not fasting and nothing came back with respect to diabetes or hypoglycemia. When my blood sugar is low I always experience the same symptoms - I begin to sweat, get light-headed and once, when I let it go too long, my speech became confused and I felt like I was going to pass out. It’s a real simple fix - a glass of OJ and 5mins later, I am fine. I don’t own a meter.

Not sure if this gives you enough info EgJ but unfortunately that is about all i can get out of him because he doesn’t know exactly what is going on.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

I think that is his issue…if he goes too long without eating his bloodsugar drops…it is often related to exercise and in the case that i spoke about before we had been drinking pretty hard the night before and eaten very little.

strange that his fasting glucose would still read ok when he had it tested but maybe he was also not doing anything strenuous which would cause a drop.

I am going to recommend he starts with just the GH (no metformin) and ramps up the dose slowly and that he gets a glucose meter and keeps an eye on it just in case. In terms of carbs I am going to tell him to keep his carb intake regular and try to focus more on slow digesting carbs to try to keep his bloodsugar stable (fewer insulin spikes)…so things like oats, yams, green veggies, fruits (low GI for during the day and higher GI like apples and bananas pre and post workout)…also to keep some juice or other higher GI carbs with him if he is feeling like his blood sugar is low.

Let me know what you guys think about these recommendations BBB (or anyone else with something valuable to add)?

Thanks again for everyone’s assistance.

FG

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
…also to keep some juice or other higher GI carbs with him if he is feeling like his blood sugar is low.

Let me know what you guys think about these recommendations BBB (or anyone else with something valuable to add)?

Thanks again for everyone’s assistance.

FG

[/quote]

A tube of cake icing works wonders and can be carried around easily. Even thrown in his gym bag so if he is feeling hypo after an intense training session, he can get a quick easy blast of high GI carbs.