T Nation

HGH + Insulin


#1

If anyone has experimented, what are the best ways to combine these two? I took 5 units of insulin after my workout yesterday plus 4 units of hgh before bed. Is this the best way, or should i combine the two after my workout and split my hgh dosages?

Also, is it normal to feel EXTREMELY wirery after taking insulin for the fist time?

Thanks guys.


#2

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#3

Well, today was the second time i used the insulin and have not experienced what I did the other day (im not even sure how many carbs i inhaled b/c i just kept wanting more and feeling VERY weird).

Anyway, I ingest about 60 grams of simple sugars PWO and 50 grams of protein. I weigh 170 w/9 % bf.

Also, how often do u take your insulin? Is it only post workout on your workout days, and if you perform multiple workouts, how many times do you take the insulin? Or, do you also take your insulin on your "off" days?

I have 200 i.u.'s of insulin and 10ml of insulin so I figure i'll have to order more insulin, but don't really know how long i should continue to stack these two?

Thanks for your help


#4

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#5

Nice info. Please keep un informed on how this pans out for you. If its was worth it, etc. Have you done insulin before?


#6

Guys

I don't understand why you would inject yourself with insulin.

What is the point of doing this?

I've been reading about working on lowering my insulin as being a good thing, in fact.

Some background, while I am on this site, I am not in "great shape". I am about 25% body fat and weigh around 193 and am working on lowering this by going on a diet to minimize my insulin resistance by mainly eating meat and vegetables, and cutting out most other carbohydrates like bread pasta and high glycemic fruits and veggies(e.g. potatoes and bananas).

So, could you explain the reason for taking insulin? Or is there an online resource that talks about this in some detail?

Thanks guys
--Tom


#7

Bro, go here;
www.worldclassbodybuilding.com

And look in the insulin/hgh section.
Spend some time learning, insulin can result in death, blindness, diabetes, etc if not properly used. I have never used insulin and probably won't. HGH is great...good luck.


#8

I want to give a background first of something that's quite important to understanding the whole thing involved. We're discussing advanced lifters here, not beginners or so much intermediates.

Is the outcome of training gaining say 1% per week, as the usual outcome and how progress is made?

Well, how many of those who have been training, as adults, many years this year for example bench 300, the next year 450, the next year 675, the year after that 1012, etc?

How many such lifters overhead press this year 200, the next 300, the next 450, the next 675, etc?

This doesn't happen.

Yet most such lifters can in fact make good progress during these years. But the mode of it will not be gaining 1% per week as the ordinary outcome.

Nor, I think, gaining one part in 1000 per week, either, as some kind of exceedingly incremental slow progression.

No, important results that build upon each other come in jumps which may be 1% or greater. There are also fluctuations around a homeostasis, but these fluctuations don't build on each other.

Two general kinds of things can happen that are perceived as muscle growth:

1) The cells stay essentially the same -- same number of nuclei per cell, same number of mature muscle cells -- but the cells either "plump up" somewhat or not, there being a definite limit to how much they can do so in that state, so the "plumping up" does not build on itself incrementally once having already achieved near maximum.

2) The cells undergo what you might call a quantum or categorical change: one or more nuclei are added to a cell from satellite cells, or satellite cells differentiate to become mature muscle cells.

This latter category DOES build on itself and so to speak permanently raise the bar for how large that muscle can be.

It seems that so much of training effort is devoted to what is probably only optimizing the degree of "plumped up" the cells are. Without drugs achieving in contrast the quantum changes is going to be a relatively infrequent event, and will never occur to the full same extent that can be achieved with drugs, but should happen to some extent a number of times during the training year, for the advanced lifter.

Where drugs really come into play is stimulating, in combination with exercise and diet, the quantum changes.

Insulin plus AAS plus GH can trigger changes that don't occur, or trigger them to occur more rapidly, than either AAS alone or AAS plus GH.

That is why insulin is used, to better achieve these categorical changes in the muscle.


#9

I will add that when I use slin and hgh I like 2.5 iu's in the am with some Anabolic Pump (don't want to take slin in the am and AP is very very effective at improving slin sensitivity) then I take another 2.5 iu's post workou with 3-4 iu's of slin. I was going sub-q but I'll swith as I had a little episode a week back when the slin should have been WAY out of my system but was still hanging around and I started going hypo.

I scarfed a ton of food down and wrote it up as something to never do again. Nutrition should look like 10 grams of carbs 40% simple 60% complex per iu of slin, plus make sure you have extra laying around as you will likely have problems if you don't...like you might die. Protein kinda depends on your size, I'm 230 so I take in 60-70 grams mostly whey, some milk.


#10

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#11

I think your general theory is a good one but the controlling factor may well be acquiring insulin resistance, not the amount of insulin per se.

Now if your daily dosage was pretty low and you have good insulin sensitivity in the first place -- and thus aren't in a situation where just a little extra might conceivably put you over an edge -- then that probably wouldn't be the explanation, even though there's a fair bit of research correlating worsened insulin sensitivity (rather than amount of insulin per se) with tendency to store visceral fat vs subcutaneous.

But if your insulin use was enough to compromise insulin sensitivity -- and with a lot of those using insulin to aid anabolism the amounts do go past that -- then that may be the full explanation.

Your points on possible growth of the viscera are also I think right. The most likely thing I would think is a combination of the factors, the using enough insulin to lessen sensitivity, plus the IGF-1.


#12

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#13

I really like your response Bill, i just had a similar conversation with another member here. One thing i might add is that in my opinion (from 20 years of personal experience only) i believe the huge steroid doses that guys think will make them huge are just not necessary. For the most part when i was using in the 2 gram range weekly I think i did more harm than good. As you stated and adding in my opinion basic anabolics i feel only allow you to grow existing musccle cells more rapidly than otherwise. Once they are maxed out they are maxed out. Thats where GH, SLin, IGF come into play, to add new muscle tissue that can then be matured and grown rapidly in teh anabolic environment supplied by moderate anabolic doses. I feel (for me) that 400 to 800 mg of anabolics are plenty ( i am 280lbs currently) to maximize my existing muscle mass. Huge doses will not help, if i choose to grow signifigantly more tissue i will have to go back to the GH or igf to add new tissue. I think this is where people get mixed up they just keep adding AAS thinking if they just take enough they will grow again when in reality they have maximized the existing muscle tissue and will not make additional signifigant changes without GH, SLIn, IGF, MGF, etc.