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HGH, Insulin, and Metformin

So, I have been reading a lot of literature online about HGH being ran with insulin, cause apparently HGH uses insulin and needs insulin to be effective. However, I see others running Metformin and berberine, which is WELL known to lower insulin. Couldnt one just run IGF-1 peptide with HGH, instead of insulin, and risking of shutting down your pancreas? Does it make sense to even use Metformin while running HGH, since this is known to lower insulin?

I don’t really agree with this. HGH is perfectly effective on its own. However, a few bodybuilders I’ve seen recommend taking insulin with it to get the most anabolic response possible. Higher doses of GH will eventually impact insulin metabolism, adding insulin to the mix sounds needlessly complicated unless you’re a pro or make a living off your appearance.

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I think running it in the sub 4 iu a day range shouldn’t require insulin unless you are an outlier. I think the insulin thing with the big pros comes down to running a lot more GH and eating a shit ton. They partially need the slin to absorb the 7K calories they are eating.

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How would one go about making sure they are ok with 4iu’s a day? By a blood glucose meter and check it like that? Or something else

This prolly should be asked in the pharma section. Once you bring insulin into the mix, it can be fatal if you OD. What’s too much? Only your body will tell you. Metformin is not the miracle drug that has been pushed by the likes of Campbell.

I read much about anti cancer and longevity with metformin. Many studies. Most recent was with breast cancer.

Seems there’s no negative unless you have gastro issues while taking.

Am I wrong?

Am taking at 44. Not for diabetes. I think of stopping if it doesn’t do anything. I can always restart. Idk.

Any opinion @highpull @middleages

Berberine does the same thing, is legal at any supplement shop, and comes with no gastro issues. Clinical trials have shown it’s as effective as Metformin.

For some. My GF and I both tried it and would have to eat within 5 minutes of a bathroom :joy:

Sometimes you need to take it for a week or 2 and gastro issues go away.

Iron I just don’t like that berberine is a supplement and quality may vary esp when taking long term.

i.e. recent recalls with metformin cause of cancer chemical. Are supplement issues discovered?

Btw here is my go to on supplements

I’ve read the gastro issues are actually a positive side effect of the metformin detoxing the microbiome. Many people consequently prematurely stop taking metformin due to the digestive side effects and they don’t realise its actually positive & beneficial for you despite the discomfort. I also believe its temporary, although no personal experience myself.

I’m aware of some that promote metformin for general health purposes and have seen some studies. However, I’m not there yet. Generally, I prefer the PCP manage issues outside of hormone optimization, though I suppose in this case metformin is being used off label.

Regarding the gastric side effects, I have several patients taking metformin for their diabetes who struggle quite a bit with that.

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What benefits can you tell us that you’ve experienced? I was once interested in using it but my friend who is a Doc, told me not to since Im pretty lean already. The added risks of side effects is not worth the little reward I would notice. And it boils down to that, risk vs reward. Im sure the risk is low, but what happens if you fall into the percentage of folks that experience the negative side of it. Gastro issues are a guarantee for the intro period, its a feature. TRT has its risks too and I get it, everything does. If you’re obese and prediabetic, then I think it would be a benefit, but doing it to have visible abs, well that’s taking the risk vs reward into a different direction. Perhaps cycling it would be a better approach? The stuff has been studied more than any other drug out there, I know. Im jus not 100% convinced that everyone would benefit from it.

Am interested in the anti cancer benefits and longevity claims.

I do get sick of taking pills though…

Nothing seems conclusive but potentially anti cancer is good enough sometimes…

I would love to get @unreal24278 take on this.

One needs to ascertain whether the benefits outweigh the risk. There is purportedly a benefit regarding longevity/reduction in cancer risk associated with Metformin use (amongst a myriad of other potential benefits)

On the other hand, chronic use depletes vitamin b-12, elevates homocysteine etc. Reduction in CVD risk associated with blood sugar stabilisation offsets this risk. One needs to also factor in the prospect of potentially going hypo if dosing with normal blood sugar. If you want to try it out, start low, moniter fasting glucose, hba1c, kidney function etc. If you notice symptomatology arising indicative of lactic acidosis contact a doctor immediately.

Metformin is considerably less likely to induce Lactic acidosis in comparison to other biguanide meds.

Gastrointestinal irritation is a common side effect, but tends to settle after continual use; though some will always struggle with nausea, diarrhoea etc.

For a totally healthy individual… I don’t buy the notion Metformin is some “wonder drug” for longevity. If this were the case it would be aggressively marketed by anti aging clinics and the likes for this purpose. For those who are prediabetic however I tend to believe there is significant benefit associated with use.

Disagree because metformin is very inexpensive.

You do have anti aging guru David Sinclair who takes it himself.

They would just only allow it to be specifically compounded for you, with a deal with the compounder. Problem solved.

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