T Nation

HGH Antibodies?

I’ve been looking into procuring some HGH primarily for use in accelerating rehab of some old injuries.

I came across some info about 191aa and 192aa. Those who can answer my question will understand what this means so I won’t explain. I’ve seen anecdotal evidence that 191aa causes a 5% increase in antibodies and 192aa causes a 30% increase in antibodies. Similarly I’ve heard that it’s safer to use 191aa for this reason, especially if using for long periods of time or for many cycles.

From reading around this board it seems that HGH needs to be taking at least 3 months, more likely 6 months. If anyone has suggestions please let me know.

As far as the antibody issue, does anyone have greater greater knowledge or experience with this over what I’ve said here? I’m trying to look out for long-term health and messing up some details for HGH and being on it for life isn’t exactly appealing, especially given the price. Thanks for any input.

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From my background in once been married to an insulin sales rep/RN… The immune response of such things can be due to the impurities of a product, not the principle ingredient. The stray protein fragments from yeast or bacteria in the recombinant DNA production can be the source of elevated antibodies. When insulin was extracted from pancreas of pigs and cattle, porcine and bovine, there were major concerns with immune activation.

Then some providers started to chemically change these animal derived insulin’s to make the insulin bio-identical, but there was still some purity issues and stray proteins. Later, the recombinant DNA products eliminated the stray animal protein contaminant concerns*. The yeast derived was then considered to be an improvement over bacterial rDNA as the immune system reacts less aggressively - or at least that was a neat marketing point.

Some of the issues of immune problems with HGH may have originated with cadaver sourced HGH and perhaps there really are no issues today with rDNA produced HGH aka rHGH.

I am inclined to feel that 191-192 is not an issue. The folks who sell 191 would want to make 192 a marketing issue. When money is involved, they will spin any issue they can.

  • And several religious groups were happy to see porcine derived insulin go away.

Thanks for the solid replies. It definately gives me a direction to research some more info.

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Actually, I think the issues around cadaveric HGH revolved more around prion contamination and the CJD that resulted, but I could be wrong :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Yes! CJD was the big issue… which was so big I let it go as obvious. Aside from dying from CJD, there would have been immune issues.

(The story of HGH is very interesting. When they had kids on it to grow to natural stature, then stopped admin of HCG as growth was now normal, all kinds of things started to go wrong with the patients. And when HGH was tried after that, the problems largely went away. The similarities to conditions of aging were too obvious to ignore.)

As for the other concern about foreign proteins… perhaps peptide hormones are a different class of things. Women are given Premarin, an estrogen from PREgnant MAres urINe. That does not excite the immune system, but is thought to be responsible for some of the heart disease problems seen with the studies of non-bioidentical HRT as a result of its structural differences. The sad thing was that HRT was blamed, not the drug companies’ products*. So acceptance of bio-identical HRT for women has been damaged.

  • synthetic progesterones, called progestins, were also in these non-bioidentical HRT drugs. These man-made structures were used as they could be patented by the drug companies, whereas natural hormones cannot be. So they created a xenoestrogen to gain a patent advantage. That choice was driven by economic greed and ignorance… not concern for health. This progestins did not create any immune issues that we know of… unless that really did happen and created low level inflammation processes that were part of the heart disease increases seen in the long term studies.

You shouldn’t even be able to find cadaver hgh anymore. If you do by all means AVOID it.
Though in theory a 192 amino peptide could cause an immune response I don’t think it’s ever happened.
Most brands are 191 aminos anyway.

I would naturally go with the 191, but the reason I asked was that my source has cheap 192 powder, but not 191. I like to play it safe with my health, so I’ll make the effort to find some 191. But I thought I’d ask just to gain some knowledge of the subject. My knowledge of AAS and ancillaries far outweighs that of HGH/IGF, which I’m sure is the case with most people. Thanks for the help guys.

[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
I would naturally go with the 191, but the reason I asked was that my source has cheap 192 powder, but not 191. I like to play it safe with my health, so I’ll make the effort to find some 191. But I thought I’d ask just to gain some knowledge of the subject. My knowledge of AAS and ancillaries far outweighs that of HGH/IGF, which I’m sure is the case with most people. Thanks for the help guys.[/quote]

Some of the fake HGH out there is HCG. If you are not taking HCG, a home pregnancy test showing positive would tell you that the product is HCG not HGH… unless one is a really pregnant.